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Lex Fridman Podcast
#317 – John Vervaeke: Meaning Crisis, Atheism, Religion & the Search for Wisdom
Sep 4, 2022
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03:17:01
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Quick takeaways
- The fear of death and the desire for connectedness drive the search for meaning in life.
- The meaning crisis is a combination of perennial problems and historical factors.
- The pursuit of wisdom and the search for truth are intertwined in the quest for meaning.
- Mindfulness enhances insight and self-regulation by improving our capacity for new perspectives.
- Participating in conversations and shared flow states can create deeper connection and insight.
- Myths connect individuals to deep patterns, fostering a sense of belonging and connectedness.
Deep dives
The Nature of Meaning in Life
Meaning in life is defined as the factors that make people rate their lives as more meaningful, worth living, and worth the suffering that they have to endure. It involves a sense of connectedness to oneself, other people, and the world, particularly in relation to things that have value and existence independent of one's personal preferences and concerns.
The Role of Death and Mortality
The fear of death and the awareness of one's own mortality are important motivators in the search for meaning. Going beyond the fear of death, the search for meaning is driven by a desire to be connected to something larger than oneself, something that has value and continues to exist even after one's death. This sense of connectedness to the world and the desire to make a difference and matter to something real are central aspects of finding meaning in life.
The Meaning Crisis
The meaning crisis is a combination of perennial problems and historical factors that have made the search for meaning more challenging in modern times. Perennial problems, such as finding existence absurd, experiencing existential anxiety, and feeling alienated, have always been part of the human condition. However, historical factors, such as the loss of traditional resources for meaning, have intensified these problems and made them more difficult to address.
Consciousness, Truth, and Wisdom
Consciousness is a complex and elusive phenomenon that requires an integrated understanding of what it is and what it does. Wisdom, on the other hand, is the coordination of multiple rationalities, the ability to transcend self-deceptive and self-destructive behavior, and to navigate complex and ill-defined situations effectively. The search for truth and the pursuit of wisdom are intertwined in the quest for meaning, requiring constant self-transcendence and an open-minded approach to understanding the world.
Mindfulness and the Different Practices
Mindfulness encompasses both meditation and contemplation. Meditation involves stepping back and looking at our frames, while contemplation involves looking through the frame. Mindfulness is the awareness of our mental framing, allowing us to break away from inappropriate frames and create new ones. It enhances insight and self-regulation by improving our capacity to see new perspectives and integrate them into our worldview.
The Power of Dialogues and Distributed Cognition
Dialogues and collective intelligence play a significant role in distributed cognition. Participating in conversations that take on a life of their own and lead to unexpected insights can create flow states and a deeper connection with oneself, others, and the world. Podcasts and YouTube videos break down boundaries between the private and public, oral speech and writing, allowing for the generation of shared flow states and meaningful dialogue. This collective flow state forms the foundation for myth building and ritual within a community.
The Functionality of Mythos and Religion
Myths are not just stories about the past, but narratives that bring awareness to pertinent patterns. They are public dreams that depend on distributed cognition and are enacted and experienced through dialogue and participatory flow states. The functionality of myth lies in connecting individuals and communities to deep patterns in meaningful ways, fostering a sense of belonging and connectedness.
The Meaning Crisis and Wisdom Famine
The meaning crisis is characterized by perennial problems of self-deception and self-destruction, leading to existential anxiety and despair. Wisdom offers a potential solution to these problems by providing ecologies of practices that promote self-correction and enhance connectedness and meaning in life. The need for wisdom and the search for meaning is highlighted by the increasing interest in non-theistic spirituality and the rise of the 'spiritual but not religious' demographic.
The importance of finding an ecology of practices and community that supports them
It is crucial for young people to find an ecology of practices and a supportive community that aligns with their values and combines wisdom and virtue. This involves seeking out activities and relationships that promote personal growth, deep connection with others, and a sense of purpose. By engaging in practices that cultivate wisdom and virtue, young people can set themselves up for a life they can be proud of.
The power of integrating the conscious and unconscious mind
Both Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud have contributed to our understanding of the human psyche. Jung's organic model emphasizes the importance of the unconscious mind in shaping our thoughts and behaviors, while Freud focuses on the psychodynamic unconscious. Integrating these two perspectives can lead to a more comprehensive understanding of ourselves and allow for personal growth and self-acceptance.
The dangers of falling into extreme ideologies
The podcast episode explores the dark history of Marxism and Nazism, emphasizing how both ideologies were rooted in all-encompassing beliefs that promised to create a better world. However, their ultimate failure was due to the Promethean spirit, the belief that humans could play God, and the distortion of key religious and philosophical concepts. Understanding the dangers of extreme ideologies can help young people navigate their own beliefs and be wary of falling into harmful ideologies.
The transformative power of love
Love is a central aspect of the human condition and plays a pivotal role in our pursuit of wisdom and meaning. Love allows us to transcend our ego-centric perspective and connect deeply with others, promoting empathy, compassion, and a greater understanding of ourselves and the world. Embracing love and learning to love wisely can lead to a more fulfilling and meaningful life.
1.
Introduction
2min
2.
Get Special Labor Day Savings Through September 11th
3min
3.
The Lex Friedman Podcast
2min
4.
What Is Meaning?
2min
5.
Is the Meaning Crisis a New Thing?
2min
6.
Is Your Mortality a Fatal Event?
3min
7.
The Death Is Not Number One
2min
8.
Are You Afraid of Your Death?
2min
9.
The Stoic Response to Mortality
2min
10.
The Temporal Horizon Flips
2min
11.
Is There a Collective Intelligence That Supports Consciousness?
2min
12.
Is Consciousness the Same as Intelligence?
2min
13.
Do Bacteria Have Consciousness?
2min
14.
What Is Consciousness?
1min
15.
What Is the Quality of Consciousness?
2min
16.
Cognitive Science - Can We Build Machines That Are Conscious?
3min
17.
AGI - General Ability
2min
18.
What Is Meaning?
2min
19.
Is Relevance Realization Dependent on Representations?
3min
20.
Evolution and Your Attention Are Constantly Evolving
2min
21.
The Relevance Realization
3min
22.
What's the Salience Landscape?
2min
23.
Recursive Relevance Realization
2min
24.
How Do We Bullshit Ourself?
3min
25.
Is It Independent or Lossly Connected?
2min
26.
What Is Truth?
2min
27.
Do You Think It's Possible to Get a Sensation of Objective Reality?
2min
28.
You Have to Recognize Partial Knowledge as Real Knowledge
2min
29.
Partial Knowledge Is Still Knowledge
2min
30.
Evolution and Evolution Exist, Right?
2min
31.
Is Cognition Illusory?
3min
32.
Can We Build the Machine That Makes Us Fly?
4min
33.
Is There a Possible Doorway Out?
2min
34.
The Meaning of Life
3min
35.
Romantic Bullshit - The Essence of Life
2min
36.
Is Your Relationship Relevance Realistic?
3min
37.
The Meaning of Life
2min
38.
The Meaning Crisis in Modern Times
4min
39.
Isn't Religion a Process, Not a Destination?
2min
40.
Is There a Functionality to Religion?
3min
41.
The Perspectival and the Adverbial Qualia
2min
42.
The Ability to Walk Is a Kind of Knowing.
2min
43.
What's the Functionality of Religion?
2min
44.
Nietzsche's 'God Is Dead'
2min
45.
Is There a Meaning Crisis?
3min
46.
What's Going on With Ralph?
2min
47.
Is There a Difference Between Atheism and Non-Theism?
2min
48.
The Ground of Being Is No Thingness
3min
49.
Is Meaning Created or Discovered?
5min
50.
Is There a Supreme Being?
2min
51.
Is There a Line to Be Drawn Between Myth and Religion?
2min
52.
The Myth of the Mythos
2min
53.
The Role of Dialogue in Distributed Cognition
2min
54.
Deal Logos
2min
55.
I Don't Think Mythos Is Really Important
2min
56.
Podcasts and Podcasts - Is There a Third Person in the Room?
2min
57.
What's Mindfulness?
2min
58.
Meditation and Mindfulness
3min
59.
The Integration of Mindfulness and Meditation
2min
60.
How to Meditate and Be Mindful?
4min
61.
Do You Have Any of the Stuff Online?
2min
62.
The State of Flow
4min
63.
What's Going on in the Flow State?
5min
64.
Getting Into the Flow State in Video Games
3min
65.
Are You Resilient to the Negative Effects of Video Games?
3min
66.
Is There a Loser-Y Social Comparison?
2min
67.
How to Have Fun in the Real World and Instagram World
2min
68.
The Potential of Transfer Failure in Tai Chi Chuan
2min
69.
How Do Psychedelics Take Our Mind?
3min
70.
Psychedelics - The S, I Think You Need Sacred.
2min
71.
Higher State of Consciousness?
2min
72.
Higher State of Consciousness - Transformative Experiences
2min
73.
What Is the Core Mythos of Christianity?
4min
74.
Is Hegel's Marxism a Political Ideology?
3min
75.
The Promethean Spirit
3min
76.
Nazism and Gnostic Mythology
2min
77.
What's the Role of the Charismatic Leader?
5min
78.
The Meaning Crisis - Is There a Greater Good That Could Be Done?
3min
79.
The Supreme Being, Ratioreligio?
2min
80.
Freud and Jung: The Subconscious Mind
2min
81.
What Motivates Humans? Sex or Power?
2min
82.
What Advice Would You Give to Young People?
1min
83.
How the Hell Do You Know?
2min
84.
The Meaning Crisis in Human Civilization
2min
85.
The Meaning Crisis
3min
John Vervaeke is a psychologist and cognitive scientist at University of Toronto. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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EPISODE LINKS:
John’s YouTube: https://youtube.com/johnvervaeke
John’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
John’s Facebook: https://facebook.com/VervaekeJohn
John’s Website: https://johnvervaeke.com
Books mentioned:
Flow: https://amzn.to/3cQDby9
On Bullshit: https://amzn.to/3PZDvYW
The Denial of Death: https://amzn.to/3KsIctp
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast
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SUPPORT & CONNECT:
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– Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman
OUTLINE:
Here’s the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time.
(00:00) – Introduction
(07:03) – Meaning
(27:17) – Consciousness
(36:17) – Relevance realization
(47:40) – Wisdom
(54:54) – Truth
(59:38) – Reality
(1:11:59) – Meaning crisis
(1:35:27) – Religion
(1:43:17) – Nontheism
(1:58:26) – Distributed cognition
(2:16:37) – Flow
(2:36:35) – Psychedelics
(2:45:03) – Marxism and Nazism
(2:57:08) – Evil
(3:01:19) – Powerful ideas
(3:08:10) – Advice for young people
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