Is The Racial Reckoning Over? John McWhorter on language, art, and defunding the grammar police

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Aug 19, 2025

John McWhorter, a renowned linguist and New York Times columnist, engages in a dynamic discussion about the current state of 'woke' culture and its fading figures. He analyzes intriguing language shifts, like the rising use of 'stupider' and 'anyways' in formal contexts. Delving into his debates with economist Glenn Loury, McWhorter considers the evolution of racial identity terminology and reflects on the role of public intellectuals in today's media landscape. His insights on language, culture, and identity are thought-provoking and relevant.

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INSIGHT

Wokeness Has Migrated, Not Disappeared

High-wokeness didn't vanish; it migrated into other causes like trans debates and Gaza protests.
The form shifted from race-focused dominance to recurring crusading impulses in new arenas.

INSIGHT

Public Rejection Of Exaggerated Race Narratives

McWhorter believes books like White Fragility were overpromoted and are now seen as thin.
He argues the public grew tired of exaggerated portrayals of pervasive, daily racial grievance.

INSIGHT

Questioning 'African‑American' As A Useful Label

McWhorter argues 'African-American' became unwieldy and suggests returning to 'black' or simpler color-based terms.
He says the label blurred too many distinct origins and now lacks intuitive meaning.

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Author, New York Times columnist, and superstar linguist John McWhorter returns to the pod to catch us up on what’s been on his mind now that the Woke Emergency is over . . . or is it over? We talk about how figures like Robin D’Angelo and Ibram X. Kendi have receded from the spotlight and then move on to more pressing questions topics, such as whether New York City mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani’s “I vs me” confusion is disqualifying (I say yes), whether a smart person would say “stupider” or “more stupid,” when it became acceptable to say “anyways,” and why kids today have substituted “based off” for “based on.” We also discuss John’s long-running conversations with economist Glenn Loury on The Glenn Show and how their divergent views on the Trump phenomenon have changed (and also not changed) the dynamics of their discussions. (Listen to my 2024 interview with Glenn Loury here.) John reflects on Glenn’s 2024 memoir and explains why he would be reluctant to expand the personal writing in his columns into an entire book. Finally, we talk about the definition of a public intellectual and why so many people with microphones count themselves as such. Would a legendary public intellectual like Susan Sontag have adapted to the YouTube era? What John has to say might surprise you. John McWhorter is one of several speakers featured at the Unspeakeasy Small Gathering for Big Ideas rereat in New York City October 11-12, 2025. Find out more at https://theunspeakeasy.com/nyc. GUEST BIO John McWhorter writes a weekly newsletter for The New York Times, is a professor of linguistics at Columbia University, and the author or more than 20 books, most recently Pronoun Trouble, Nine Nasty Words, and Woke Racism. HOUSEKEEPING Order my new book, The Catastrophe Hour: Selected Essays, on Amazon or directly from the publisher here. Join the listener and reader community by subscribing to my Substack at theunspeakablepodcast.com. Visit The Unspeakable on YouTube.