Pfeffer on Power Acting With Power and Using Your Influence with Deborah Gruenfeld
In this episode of the 'Pfeffer on Power' podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, is joined by Deborah Gruenfeld, professor at Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business and author of the book Acting with Power: Why We Are More Powerful Than We Believe.
Deborah emphasizes the impact of physical body language and personal presence on the perception of power. The discussion further delves into the utilization of 'outside-in' and 'inside-out' techniques for asserting power and the notion of differentiating between status and power.
Deborah argues that possessing power comes with responsibilities that may not appeal to all while striving for status is universal. From the width of your stance to the tempo of your speech, the nuances of body language speak volumes about your place in the social hierarchy. Deborah and Jeff examine the choreography of power—how to enter a room, how to take up space, and how to pace your movements to nonverbally assert dominance. For those who've ever felt overlooked or underestimated, this episode is a toolbox for crafting the presence you deserve.
- 00:00 Introduction
- 00:53 Understanding Power and Body Language
- 01:42 The Evolution of the 'Acting with Power' Class and Book
- 02:20 The Impact of Visuals and Nonverbal Cues on Power
- 03:22 The Role of Personal Growth in Power
- 08:50 The Power of Imagination in Power Dynamics
- 11:46 The Importance of Taking Up Space
- 22:31 The Role of Status and Power in Hierarchies
- 23:53 Overcoming Fear and Embracing Power
- 27:59 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.
Episode Quotes:
A technique on how to show up more powerful
06:31: One set of tactics or techniques is what I call outside-in techniques, and they have to do with just changing how you carry yourself: your physical body, how you stand, how you use your arms, how you use your eyes, and how you sit. The other set of tactics that I really think is equally important, maybe even more important in some cases, is what I call inside-out tactics. The inside-out tactics have to do with having ways to reframe situations and our role in those situations that are empowering. One of the things I like to say in my classes is that there are a lot of things about power and social life that are not under our control. We can't, for example, control directly how people perceive us, but we can always control, once we know how, where our attention goes.
How do you act powerful?
12:26: Being open in some ways feels very vulnerable, and it is. But when you have a lot of power, you can afford to be vulnerable. This is why the alpha gorillas sit with everything exposed because nobody's coming for them. It's the lower-down-ranking animals that have to protect their bodies. So having an open chest, in particular, conveys a lot of authority and power. That's an especially important technique for people who are smaller in stature. People always ask me if I can't carry myself like a tall person and I can't dominate someone physically with my height, what options do I have? I often tell them that the most important thing is that you carry yourself with an open chest because what you're communicating when your arms are capable of moving away from your body is that you are ready to fight for whatever you want, regardless of how big you are.
On being comfortable with power
23:25: There are people who just feel that it's not who they are to carry themselves in a way that takes ownership of superiority, authority, control, or having interests, experiences, and expertise that are privileged above other people. They're just people who feel like they can't do that. And I think it's one of the big challenges that a lot of executives face. In this way, I think we're really aligned, which is that most people realize they need to be comfortable with power in order to be successful. But they have to get past this fear of being held accountable, fear of losing status, fear of making enemies, and also fear of failing to show up as an authentic, powerful person when how you really feel is a little bit smaller.