#473 – Iran War Debate: Nuclear Weapons, Trump, Peace, Power & the Middle East

603 snips

Jun 26, 2025

Guest

Scott Horton

Guest

Mark Dubowitz

This discussion features Mark Dubowitz, a leading expert on Iran's nuclear program, and Scott Horton, an outspoken critic of U.S. foreign policy. They engage in a heated debate on Iran’s nuclear ambitions and the historical context of military interventions. Topics include the effectiveness of nuclear negotiations, implications of U.S. strategies, and contrasting views on the Iranian regime's intentions. They also critique the narrative surrounding American involvement in the Middle East, emphasizing the importance of understanding and dialogue over intervention.

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INSIGHT

Iran's Nuclear Program as Deterrent

Iran's nuclear program serves as a latent deterrent rather than an active weapons program.
Bombing sites risks pushing Iran closer to actual nuclear weapon development.

INSIGHT

Iran's Covert Nuclear Program History

Iran conducted a covert nuclear weapons program called Ahmad until 2003.
Key nuclear sites were hidden and scientists dispersed after 2003, keeping weaponization options open.

ADVICE

Strategy for Iran Negotiations

The U.S. should push Iran back to Oman negotiations for full dismantlement of nuclear weapons.
Maintain credible military deterrence to prevent Iran's nuclear breakout.

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Debate on Iran war between Scott Horton and Mark Dubowitz. Scott Horton is the author and director of the Libertarian Institute, editorial director of Antiwar.com, host of The Scott Horton Show, and for the past three decades, a staunch critic of U.S. foreign policy and military interventionism. Mark Dubowitz is the chief executive of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, host of the Iran Breakdown podcast, and a leading expert on Iran and its nuclear program for over 20 years. This debate was recorded on Tuesday, June 24, after the Iran-Israel ceasefire was declared.
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Transcript:
https://lexfridman.com/iran-israel-debate-transcript

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EPISODE LINKS:
Mark’s X: https://x.com/mdubowitz
Mark’s Podcast: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmEsAFBNkqsMQnt5pypwEX0ul0NyIjd3E
The Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD): https://www.fdd.org/

Scott’s X: https://x.com/scotthortonshow
Scott’s YouTube: https://youtube.com/@scotthortonshow
Scott’s Podcast: https://www.scotthortonshow.com/
Scott’s Website: https://scotthorton.org/
Scott’s Books: https://amzn.to/3T9Qg7y
The Libertarian Institute: https://libertarianinstitute.org/
Antiwar.com: https://antiwar.com/

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OUTLINE:
(00:00) – Introduction
(00:36) – Sponsors, Comments, and Reflections
(08:02) – Iran-Israel War
(16:45) – Iran’s Nuclear Program
(48:37) – Nuclear weapons and uranium
(1:00:40) – Nuclear deal
(1:26:14) – Iran Nuclear Archive
(1:48:50) – Best case and worst case near-term future
(2:24:15) – US attack on Iran – Operation Midnight Hammer
(2:47:48) – Nuclear proliferation in the future
(3:08:46) – Libertarianism
(3:21:35) – Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD)
(3:37:10) – Trump and Peacemaking process
(3:42:08) – WW2
(3:55:08) – WW3