19. A Dungeon No One Would Ever Want to Be In (Witherow's 2nd Principle)
Jan 16, 2024
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Jim McCarthy, Senior Pastor of Trinity PCA in Statesboro, GA, brings his insights on church governance with a focus on Witherow's second principle that bishops and elders are essentially the same. He shares his experiences as a new pastor, shedding light on the complexities of church leadership and identity. The conversation navigates the humor in home renovations, while also diving into serious discussions about scripture's implications for church authority, identity, and the interconnected roles within ecclesiastical structures.
The podcast suggests that bishops and elders are interchangeable titles in the apostolic church, emphasizing a unified role in governance.
Discussions on Witherow’s principle highlight the significant impact of understanding church leadership roles on the church's operational integrity and purity.
Deep dives
Introduction to the Podcast
The episode begins with hosts Ben Ratliff, Jared Nelson, and Scott Edberg welcoming Jim McCarthy, a senior pastor, to discuss Thomas Witherow's book, 'The Apostolic Church, Which Is It?'. They briefly share personal updates, highlighting Scott's home improvement projects as he works on transforming his 100-year-old home basement into a woodworking shop. This sets a relatable tone, showing the hosts as real individuals experiencing life challenges. The episode then shifts focus, inviting Jim to introduce himself and talk about his recent transition to Georgia with his family, emphasizing the pastoral journey.
Exploring Church Government
The podcast delves into the structure of the apostolic church, particularly the form of governance by examining whether office bearers such as bishops and elders are distinct or synonymous. Witherow argues that terms like 'elder' and 'bishop' represent the same office, as demonstrated throughout the New Testament where these titles appear interchangeably. Significant references include Titus 1 and Acts 20, where the same individuals are referred to by both titles, suggesting a unity in role rather than a hierarchy. This points toward a need for a clear understanding of church government that aligns with biblical principles.
Interchangeability of Terms
The discussion emphasizes the interchangeability of the terms 'bishop' and 'elder' as critical to understanding church governance. Witherow highlights that the absence of these terms in the same verses reinforces the idea that they describe the same office, aiding clarity. For example, in Titus 1, the text shows that an overseer, referenced as an elder, is directly responsible for the flock, reinforcing the belief in their identical roles. The hosts robustly engage with scriptural interpretation, reinforcing the perspective that both offices share core responsibilities in church leadership.
Practical Implications for Church Governance
The podcast concludes by discussing the practical significance of equating bishops and elders in church operations. The hosts reflect on the vital nature of this understanding, which could influence how church leadership operates practically. Emphasizing that all those called to ministry carry the weight of their roles collectively as elders, overseers, and shepherds, they argue that separating these aspects diminishes the role's integrity. This perspective emphasizes that church governance is not merely a conventional structure but profoundly affects the church's peace and purity, grounding its practices in scriptural fidelity.
The Polity Triumvirate is joined by Rev. Jim McCarthy to discuss Witherow's second principle of the apostolic church: the terms elder and bishop are identical.