What does leadership shaped by the cross really look like in today’s church—and how far have we drifted from it? Mike and Tim continue the Cruciformity Series with a raw, revealing, and intensely personal reflection on their own experiences with American evangelical leadership culture. From megachurch strategy to influence-based platforms, they unpack how conventional models of “biblical leadership” often mirror corporate America more than Christ.

This episode challenges deeply ingrained assumptions about success, authority, platform, and power, and proposes a radically different path: cruciform leadership, rooted in humility, weakness, and the relentless pursuit of others’ flourishing. Mike shares his personal struggle of unlearning old paradigms and embracing a leadership ethos shaped by Jesus’ downward trajectory from divinity to servanthood. It's a must-listen for pastors, churchgoers, and anyone navigating the tension between faithfulness and influence.

Key Takeaways: • What is Cruciform Leadership? – How the biblical model of leadership centers on self-giving love and the surrender of privilege. • The Seduction of Success Metrics – Why growth, platform, and “effectiveness” are poor substitutes for faithfulness and Christlikeness. • From CEO to Servant – Reframing pastoral roles through surrender, not strategy. • Personal Confession and Reflection – Mike shares how his perspective changed after decades in the evangelical megachurch system. • Leadership Beyond the Church – Exploring how cruciformity applies in workplaces, families, and personal relationships.

Quotes to Remember: • "Cruciform leadership isn’t about getting things done—it’s about delivering God’s love and grace into people’s lives, daily." • “You can run a church, a marriage, or a business using old creation power. But the gospel calls you to something new.”

Resources Mentioned: • Tim Gombis – The Drama of Ephesians • Dallas Willard – Quotes on humility & leadership • Caitlin Schess interview – On platform vs. message • Book of Philippians 2 – The downward trajectory of Jesus • Mark Gombis’s Commentary on Mark

Whether you’ve been hurt by church leadership, led within it, or simply want to grow as a follower of Jesus, this episode invites you to a deeper and more transformative way of thinking about influence, success, and faith.

Keep engaging with us by subscribing, leaving a review, or connecting on social media. We'd love to hear your stories as we pursue the way of Jesus together.

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Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford

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