Rutger Bregman reckons we're kinder than we think we are.
He's a Dutch journalist and international best-selling author of Humankind: A Hopeful History, a book that lights a fire under the idea that humans are inherently selfish and doomed to self-destruct.
Rutger and I chat about hope, calling out billionaires for not paying enough tax and what our society could look like if we simply - and wildly - chose to trust each other more.
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