Welcome to Episode 52, different from the episode we advertised, a bit of a mix up at What If Towers, but it means some of you now know the subject of our next episode. Oh well. But this week's is such a treat.

Meet Dr Rupa Marya and Rhiannon Osborne (many thanks to her, as this episode was her idea), who bring a delightful and fresh inroad into what society could look like if it were to prioritise health in the full meaning of the word. It's a discussion that is both grounded and hugely aspirational, just like we like it here.

I hope you love this episode. My thanks to both my guests because they were both amazing, and to Ben Addicott as always for making it sound so amazing.

Please consider supporting the podcast by visiting www.patreon.com/fromwhatiftowhatnext and becoming a patron.