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80,000 Hours Podcast
#160 – Hannah Ritchie on why it makes sense to be optimistic about the environment
Aug 14, 2023
02:36:42
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Quick takeaways
- Increasing agricultural productivity in Sub-Saharan Africa is crucial for addressing global poverty.
- The book 'Not the End of the World' argues for the possibility of building a sustainable planet.
- Reducing outdoor air pollution is an effective solution to mitigate environmental issues and improve public health.
- The successful international cooperation in addressing the depletion of the ozone layer demonstrates the potential for global environmental progress.
- Consumer choices and market demand play a crucial role in driving companies towards environmentally-friendly options.
Deep dives
The Importance of Signal in Environmental Impact
One way to have a significant impact is by sending a signal that you care about the environment and climate change. Buying electric cars, installing solar power, and purchasing meat substitutes all help create a market demand for clean technologies and lower their costs.
Factors Influencing Agricultural Productivity in Sub-Saharan Africa
Increasing agricultural productivity in Sub-Saharan Africa is crucial due to high poverty rates and dependence on agriculture for livelihoods. Small holder farmers lack the resources to invest in inputs like fertilizers and machinery, leading to low yields. Addressing global poverty requires improving agricultural productivity in the region, and doing so can also mitigate environmental issues like deforestation from expanding farmland.
The Importance of Building a Sustainable Planet
The book Not the End of the World by Dr. Hannah Ritchie argues for the possibility of building a sustainable planet. It challenges the perception that the environment is doomed by emphasizing the progress made in meeting human needs and the potential to address environmental challenges. By adopting evidence-based approaches and solutions, it aims to shift the narrative from hopelessness to one of collective action and positive change.
The Concerns and Solutions with Air Pollution
Air pollution, particularly outdoor pollution, is a significant environmental issue. It causes millions of premature deaths globally, with the most affected countries mostly falling in the middle-income range. The reduction of fossil fuel use and implementing pollutant limits on power plants are effective solutions. Lessons can be learned from successful efforts in rich countries, as well as the positive impact of poverty reduction on indoor air pollution.
The Importance of the Ozone Layer and the Problem of Ozone Depletion
The ozone layer plays a crucial role in shielding us from harmful UV radiation. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, scientists like Paul Crutzen, Roland Molina, and Sherwood Rowland hypothesized that certain chemicals, such as CFCs, were depleting the ozone layer. However, it took several years to gather experimental evidence. In 1985, it was confirmed that ozone was indeed depleting, and a clearer picture emerged when the ozone hole over Antarctica was captured in 1983. At that point, public demand for action, changing political leadership, and industry incentives led to the formation of the Montreal Protocol in 1989. The protocol aimed to eliminate production of ozone-depleting substances and increase ambition over time. By 1992, the protocol was successfully ratified by countries worldwide, and emissions of these substances have been reduced by more than 99% since the 1980s. While the ozone layer is not fully recovered, the hole has stopped growing and is shrinking as we leave it alone to recover naturally.
Lessons from Addressing Ozone Depletion
The ozone depletion case showcases that progress on global environmental problems can happen relatively quickly. The key is to present alternatives that are cheaper and more attractive than the harmful substances or practices being used. Industry and market incentives play a crucial role in driving change, as demonstrated by DuPont's switch to alternative technologies before their patent expired. Additionally, strong scientific evidence, public demand, political will, and international cooperation are essential factors in addressing these issues. The ozone case also highlights the need for continuous evaluation and increasing ambition to successfully address the problem.
Consumer Choices and Market Incentives
The ozone case highlights the importance of consumer choices and market demand. When consumers shift their preferences and demonstrate a market for alternative technologies, companies are driven to meet that demand. This can be observed in the shift towards electric vehicles, where companies are pivoting to meet the growing market opportunities. It is crucial to show companies that there is a sizeable market for environmentally-friendly options, which can influence their production and investment decisions.
Lack of Reliable Data on Microplastics
One area that lacks reliable data is the impact of microplastics on human and animal health. While microplastics are widespread, there is little convincing evidence regarding their significant detrimental health impacts. This is significant because it changes the proposition of solutions. Currently, the primary solution for plastic pollution is proper waste management, as opposed to eliminating plastic use entirely. However, if studies find significant health impacts from microplastics, plastic use would become a higher priority.
The importance of distinguishing between concern and optimism
One key insight from the podcast is the importance of distinguishing between concern for a problem and optimism about finding solutions. The host emphasizes that while it is crucial to be concerned about an issue, such as climate change, it is equally important to remain optimistic about our ability to address and solve the problem. The speaker points out that the narrative often tends to be pessimistic about the ability to address the problem, leading to a lack of motivation. However, the speaker believes that showcasing progress and highlighting actionable solutions can actually inspire and motivate people to take action. This insight suggests that it's possible to simultaneously acknowledge the severity of a problem while remaining optimistic about the potential for positive change.
Dealing with imposter syndrome and the pressure of public scrutiny
Another key point discussed in the podcast is the speaker's personal experience of dealing with imposter syndrome and the pressure of public scrutiny. The speaker shares their struggle of straddling different disciplines and feeling like they don't have the expertise of specialists in each field. They highlight how anxiety related to mistakes and the fear of reputation damage can influence decision-making, such as declining interview requests. The speaker also mentions the benefit of therapy in dealing with imposter syndrome and the importance of building an evidence base to validate one's abilities. This insight suggests that managing imposter syndrome and finding ways to cope with public scrutiny are essential for pursuing ambitious projects and maintaining confidence in one's work.
16.
Not the End of the World: How We Can Be the First Generation to Build a Sustainable Planet
3min
"There's no money to invest in education elsewhere, so they almost get trapped in the cycle where they don't get a lot from crop production, but everyone in the family has to work there to just stay afloat. Basically, you get locked in. There's almost no opportunities externally to go elsewhere. So one of my core arguments is that if you're going to address global poverty, you have to increase agricultural productivity in sub-Saharan Africa. There's almost no way of avoiding that." — Hannah Ritchie
In today’s episode, host Luisa Rodriguez interviews the head of research at Our World in Data — Hannah Ritchie — on the case for environmental optimism.
Links to learn more, summary and full transcript.
They cover:
- Why agricultural productivity in sub-Saharan Africa could be so important, and how much better things could get
- Her new book about how we could be the first generation to build a sustainable planet
- Whether climate change is the most worrying environmental issue
- How we reduced outdoor air pollution
- Why Hannah is worried about the state of biodiversity
- Solutions that address multiple environmental issues at once
- How the world coordinated to address the hole in the ozone layer
- Surprises from Our World in Data’s research
- Psychological challenges that come up in Hannah’s work
- And plenty more
Get this episode by subscribing to our podcast on the world’s most pressing problems and how to solve them: type ‘80,000 Hours’ into your podcasting app. Or read the transcript.
Producer and editor: Keiran Harris
Audio Engineering Lead: Ben Cordell
Technical editing: Milo McGuire and Dominic Armstrong
Additional content editing: Katy Moore and Luisa Rodriguez
Transcriptions: Katy Moore
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