Forrest explores how we can harness perfectionism’s strengths without getting captured by its vulnerabilities with therapist and author Katherine Morgan Schafler. They talk about perfectionism’s bad branding, and how our relationship with perfectionism can lead to it being either a superpower or a stumbling block. They discuss the different types of perfectionists, the limitations of defining perfectionism merely as a defense against criticism, and the importance of shifting our language around self-criticism. You’ll learn about the difference between power and control, why self-compassion beats self-punishment, and how to keep perfectionism in check while still reaching your goals.

About our Guest: Katherine is a psychotherapist, former on-site therapist at Google, and author of the recent book The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power.

You can watch this episode on YouTube.

Key Topics:

0:00: Introduction

1:35: Defining perfectionism

6:00: Ideals, identity, and asking yourself how and why you’re striving

12:40: The five types of perfectionists

21:55: Why defining perfectionism as a ‘defense against criticism’ falls short

28:20: Changing our vocabulary around self-criticism

34:00: Why self-punishment doesn’t work

38:10: The difference between power and control

44:40: Splitting vs. scaling, and reaching out for connection

49:10: When perfectionistic tendencies invade our relationships

54:10: The intention that drives real goals, and finding your metric for measuring success

1:07:10: Recap

I am now writing on Substack, check out my work there.

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