107. Debt Discussion 3: Anthropology and Everyday Anarchism with Bill Maurer
Nov 15, 2023
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Anthropologist Bill Maurer joins for a discussion on primordial debt, gift-giving, and the myth of barter. They explore anarchy in Byzantium, excitement around Modern Monetary Theory, and the release of the book 'As If Already Free'. They also discuss writing, complexity, and alternative infrastructures.
Money originated from systems of gift-giving and reciprocity, challenging the widely believed myth of barter as the origin of money.
The myth of primordial debt perpetuates the idea of society and the state holding power over individuals, hindering the exploration of alternative systems and forms of value creation.
The state and market are not opposing forces but function together, mutually reinforcing their existence, calling for a reevaluation of their relationship and the narratives surrounding them.
Deep dives
Debt as a Concept Debunked
David Graeber's book Debt challenges the widely believed myth that money originated from barter. He argues that instead of a primitive barter system, human societies historically operated on systems of gift-giving and reciprocity. This challenges the conventional economic narrative that money was invented as a mutual medium of exchange to facilitate direct barter. Graeber's analysis sheds light on the interplay between societies, states, and markets, highlighting the need to question existing structures and imagine new ways of organizing relationships and value.
The Myth of Primordial Debt
Graeber introduces the concept of the myth of primordial debt, which is often overlooked in discussions of his book Debt. This myth suggests that money serves as a means to repay a debt to society, which provides us with the resources necessary for our existence. However, Graeber argues that this myth perpetuates the idea that society and the state hold power over individuals, preventing us from envisioning alternative systems and forms of value creation. By debunking this myth, Graeber encourages us to reevaluate our relationship with society and imagine new possibilities beyond the boundaries of the state and market.
The Paradoxical Relationship Between State and Market
Graeber challenges conventional thinking about the relationship between the state and the market, emphasizing their inherent interdependence rather than opposition. While economic textbooks often present the state and market as opposing forces, Graeber argues that they function together, mutually reinforcing their existence. This perspective questions the narratives advanced by politicians and economists, highlighting the need to recognize the ways in which the state and market collaborate to shape societies and restrict imaginative thinking.
The Need to Reimagine Freedom and Inequality
Graeber invites us to reconsider conventional notions of freedom and inequality. He highlights the difficulty of envisioning a world free from state control and societal structures, emphasizing the necessity to unthink the assumptions that bind us to these systems. Rather than striving for complete freedom or eradicating all inequalities, he suggests focusing on better organizing existing inequalities to create a more equitable society and improved quality of life for all.
Searching for Alternatives and Possibilities
Graeber's work encourages us to search for alternative ways of organizing society and explore existing examples outside of mainstream narratives. By examining various systems and infrastructures that exist outside the state and market, such as co-ops, community land trusts, and credit unions, we can expand our understanding of possibilities and challenge dominant structures. This approach calls for active engagement and experimentation in reshaping our relationships, structures, and systems.
Cautionary Note: Misappropriation and Misinterpretation
Graeber's work has garnered attention from different groups, including tech industry figures and investment bankers. While the ideas presented by Graeber can be valuable and thought-provoking, it is essential to be cautious of misappropriation and misinterpretation by those who may not align with the original intentions of his work. Attention should be paid to understanding and contextualizing his ideas within broader movements for social change and justice.
For the third episode of Debt Discussions, the anthropologist Bill Maurer joins me to talk about Chapter 3 of Debt, Primordial Debts. Bill and I talk about the myth of primordial debt, where it fits in the anarchism vs. social democracy debate, and if the anthropological parables in the book fit Graeber's claims. We also talk about the strengths and flaws of Graeber's approach, especially the way that his work embraces grand narratives while critiquing the grand narrative tradition.
