Fr. Anthony talks with Fr. Gregory Jensen about his most recent "Father, Speak a Word" substack article, "The Problem is I'm Shallow." The idea is that our lives are superficial and unlikely to lead to the kind of healing and growth that we are called towards. They also discuss a great irony: those who seem most motivated to move towards depth (the rigorists and gerundists) do it in a way that only increases the problem because they get distracted by the forms rather than inward discernment and change. The answer to superficiality is 1) to become part of the Orthodox Church and 2) to immerse oneself in the (seemingly mundane and certainly repetitive) faith as it should be lived within our very real and often messy families and parishes. Enjoy the show!