Young Donald Trump, Roy Cohn, and the Dark Arts of Power
Sep 27, 2024
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Sebastian Stan stars as a young Donald Trump in the film 'The Apprentice,' shedding light on his formative relationship with notorious lawyer Roy Cohn, played by Jeremy Strong. Gabriel Sherman, the film's writer, reveals how Cohn mentored Trump in the dark arts of power brokering, which shaped Trump's rise in New York society. Sherman emphasizes the film's humanist angle, defying simple political categorization. The production faced challenges, including threats from Trump himself, highlighting Hollywood's hesitance in tackling such a controversial figure.
The podcast highlights Roy Cohn's significant role in molding Donald Trump's aggressive tactics and public persona during his formative years.
Gabriel Sherman discusses the challenges faced in producing 'The Apprentice,' emphasizing its humanistic narrative amidst a politically charged atmosphere.
Deep dives
The Evolution of Donald Trump
The podcast delves into the transformative journey of Donald Trump from a young, aspiring real estate developer to a powerful figure in American society. It discusses how Trump, during his earlier years, was molded by influential figures, particularly Roy Cohn, who introduced him to the cutthroat world of New York real estate. Cohn's mentorship instilled in Trump the belief that power was achievable through aggressive tactics and media manipulation. This complex relationship illustrates how Trump's values and strategies were forged in these formative years, setting the stage for his later public persona.
Roy Cohn's Dark Influence
Roy Cohn is presented as a pivotal character in shaping Trump's approach to power and public life. Cohn, a controversial lawyer known for his ruthless legal maneuvers, became a mentor to Trump, teaching him to combat adversaries through litigation rather than capitulation. Their first meeting, which took place amid a legal battle over housing discrimination, marked the beginning of a professional relationship that significantly impacted both men’s trajectories. The podcast emphasizes that Cohn's aggressive, no-holds-barred philosophy had lasting effects on Trump's methods and public demeanor.
The Making of the Film 'The Apprentice'
The episode covers the challenges and intricacies of creating the film 'The Apprentice,' which dramatizes the relationship between Trump and Cohn. Gabriel Sherman, the film's writer and producer, shares insights about the long development process, which spanned several years, often stymied by industry hesitance and the politically charged environment surrounding Trump's image. He recounts how the film aims to capture a humanistic narrative rather than a documentary-style recounting of events, exploring the emotional depth of both characters. The film reflects a blend of historical events with fictionalized elements to portray the complex dynamics at play.
Public Reaction and Legal Threats
The response to the film, particularly from Trump's camp, has been fraught with tension, as evidenced by a cease-and-desist letter issued shortly after the film's premiere at Cannes. Despite the legal threats, Sherman expresses a desire for transparency about the characters' real-life complexities, even if not every portrayal is favorable. The podcast highlights how Hollywood's risk-averse stance influenced decisions on film distribution, showcasing the chilling effects of political affiliations on artistic expression. Amidst these challenges, the film aims to convey a poignant narrative about two flawed individuals and their impact on contemporary America.
Actors and comedians have usually played Donald Trump as larger than life, almost as a cartoon. In the new film “The Apprentice,” Sebastian Stan doesn’t play for laughs. He stars as a very young Trump falling under the sway of Roy Cohn (played by Jeremy Strong)— the notorious, amoral lawyer and fixer. “Cohn took Donald Trump under his wing when Donald was a nobody from the outer boroughs,” the film’s writer and executive producer Gabriel Sherman tells David Remnick. He “taught him the dark arts of power brokering … [and] introduced him to New York society.” Sherman, a special correspondent at Vanity Fair, also chronicled Roger Ailes’s rise to power at Fox News in “The Loudest Voice in the Room.” Sherman insists, though, that the film is not anti-Trump—or not exactly. “The movie got cast into this political left-right schema, and it’s not that. It’s a humanist work of drama,” in which the protégé eventually betrays his mentor. It almost goes without saying that Donald Trump has threatened to sue the producers of the film, and the major Hollywood studios wouldn’t touch it. Sherman talks with Remnick about how the film, which opens October 11th, came to be.
Plus, Jill Lepore is a New Yorker staff writer, a professor of history at Harvard University, and the author of the best-seller “These Truths” as well as many other works of history. While her professional life is absorbed in the uniqueness of the American experience, she finds her relaxation across the pond, watching police procedurals from Britain. “There’s not a lot of gun action,” she notes, “not the same kind of swagger.” She talks with David Remnick about three favorites: “Annika” and “The Magpie Murders,” on PBS Masterpiece; and “Karen Pirie,” on BritBox. And Remnick can’t resist a digression to bring up their shared reverence for “Slow Horses,” a spy series on Apple TV+ that’s based on books by Mick Herron, whom Lepore profiled for The New Yorker.
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