The Power of Because with Marketing Expert and Keynote Speaker Gerry O’Brion

The Power of Because with Marketing Expert Gerry O’Brion

Jenn DeWall:

Hi, everyone, Jenn DeWall here. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit, I sat down and talked with Gerry O’Brion. Let me tell you what this conversation is going to be about. Here’s the pitch- today, we’re going to learn a framework of influence that reveals how to become the number one choice, even in a crowded market. It’s something that we all need to figure out how to do because we know that there’s always going to be an increase in competition, but you’re going to learn from Gerry about the “Power of Because.” After years as an executive with billion-dollar brands, Gerry O’Brion is now a professional speaker and author. His Power of Because framework has helped tens of thousands of CEOs, business owners, and sales teams stand out from the sea of sameness and grow their sales. Gerry began his career in marketing at Proctor & Gamble and then was an executive for Coors Light, Quiznos, and Red Robin. He has his MBA from the University of Michigan, and he also spent eight years serving in the military. Enjoy our conversation as Gerry and I talk about the importance and Power of Because.

Meet Marketing Expert and Professional Speaker, Gerry O’Brion

Jenn DeWall:

Hi everyone, Thank you so much for joining us on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast. I am here today with Gerry O’Brion, who is a marketing expert and professional speaker. But I don’t want to do all the talking. So Gerry, tell us who you are and how do you just become a professional speaker? How does that happen?

Gerry O’Brion:

Oh my gosh, such a good question. I, you know, it’s funny, I get asked that question all the time. So I am a professional speaker. I’ve been doing this for about a decade. Before that, I was a corporate marketing executive. So I started out at Proctor & Gamble and moved on to become the brand manager of Coors Light, making TV ads that, you know, obviously millions of millions of people have seen. I was the VP of marketing at Red Robin and Quiznos. And ten years ago, I just said, you know what? I want to do something on my own with my own brain, my own computer, my own content, and control my own life, my own minutes, and hours of my days. And honestly, it was the hardest career journey I’ve ever been on and also the most valuable because now I’ve created my own thing, and CEOs and companies, executives all over the globe implement my framework of influence in their businesses to help them sell more attract more customers, be more successful, be more profitable.

Jenn DeWall:

Oh my gosh. I, you know, there are so many questions that I want to ask. I’m going to-, so I’ve got a question that you may not be expecting, but you’ve just listed off some of the biggest brands that I know that have been a part of my life at different stages. Right? What were the perks that you gained? What were the perks that you gained by working for these? I just have to ask. That’s more of a selfish thing. I know we’re here to talk about influence, but I just want to ask, what type of perks do you have when you work for such high-level brands?

Gerry O’Brion:

Well, you know, the big perks, you know, are with a brand like Coors because you’re working in the beer industry. That’s a lot about image and events and things like that. I mean, I’m not a big— honestly— a big football watcher. I mean, I know about the sport, but I have been to the Super Bowl, which is ironic because I’m not a big football guy. All my buddies who are super into football are like, dude, you’re going to the Super Bowl. That doesn’t seem fair reading and watch football. But I was at the Super Bowl because I was running a big event that was at the Super Bowl, partnered with Maxim magazine. So it was me and the editor of Maxim magazine, running a big event at the Super Bowl, which is just, you know, funny things. I threw a lot of big parties in Vegas and worked with a lot of celebrities Jesse James and Kid Rock. And by the way, Kid Rock is amazing. He’s a solid dude, but you know, big things like that. And you know, but honestly, you’re, it’s still a really, really hard, hard job. And, but there are these funny perks that weren’t that valuable to me, but for the right person, they would be amazing.

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah. I mean, yeah, if you’re like, Well- I mean, I love that you got to meet Kid Rock and you’re like, he’s a great guy, but that probably wasn’t what you set out to do, right. To meet him. But it’s fun. You know, I think sometimes when we have podcasts, we sometimes get caught up in the, what do you do? How do you do it? Instead of talking about, we all have fun aspects of our jobs and, or the careers that we’ve had. And we’re going to be talking about the expertise that you’ve obviously gained throughout your career, and then as well as your career today as a speaker, working with CEOs and large organizations, but it’s always fun to talk about, you know, the perks. I wish I could have gotten Super Bowl, and I, too, am not that greatest football fan. I just know enough to, I don’t know, play fantasy football, which I’ve done for two years. And it’s just really out of luck that I’ve somehow gotten second place in my fantasy football league. Even though I tell you until this year, I didn’t the difference between a wide receiver and a running back. And I think I finally got it.

Marketing, Disruption and Tiger Woods

Jenn DeWall:

So one of the things that I know that you work with organizations on is navigating disruption, which we know that in this climate if you haven’t been disrupted by, you know, whether it’s the economy, whether it’s COVID, whether it’s just a different threats to your business, you’re likely not doing business. Everyone has faced disruption this year. Tell me a little bit about how you work with organizations around disruption and why that’s something you maybe enjoy.

Gerry O’Brion:

I think it’s important to understand the nature of disruption to an organization. And what I mean is know, I speak to you know, let’s say 10,000 CEOs a year, and when those CEOs see something inspirational or unique or something they haven’t heard before, the first thing they do is they run back to their executive team, and they say, Oh, we’ve got to do this work. I want to work on this. And that rolls out to the organization. Well, a lot of times, organizations are like, Oh no, another new idea. Oh no, he’s got another idea.

Jenn DeWall:

I’ve been that employee sometimes.

Gerry O’Brion:

They disrupt the organization when the CEO or the executive team is simply trying to say, I’ve got ideas about how we can be higher, performing better, more successful into the future. And the key for the CEO or the executive team is to bring those employees along on the journey in a way that they understand it, that they get it, they’re excited to do it. So I show in my keynote, this, this graph, and you won’t be able to find it anywhere on the internet because it’s, it’s a proprietary graph that I show, but it’s based on publicly available data from Tiger Woods winning rate on the PGA tournament.

Perfect. All right. So one story I tell my audiences is, in fact, the most photographed slide. And I’m going to visually since on a podcast, tell you the example, but Tiger Woods famous golfer at age 21 was the first year he ever played on the PGA tournament. And he won that year 25% of all of the PGA PGA tournaments that he entered at 21 years old, winning at that age. No one had ever won at his age before, but by two years later, he was only winning 5% of the tournament.

So I asked my audiences, why do you think? And a lot of people know at age 23, Tiger Woods did something remarkable. He changed his swing. Now think about this. He’s 23 years old. He’s been golfing since he was three. He’s been practicing his swing the same way for 20 years. Golfing like no one had ever golfed before. And he said you know what? I think if I change my swing, I can win even more. But it requires you to get messy, to do something you’re uncomfortable with, to do things in a new way. The same thing that we’ve been forced to do during COVID. We get things thrown at us, disruptions thrown at us, CEOs, executives, companies, the economy, new kinds of employees, key employee leaves. There are millions of things that happen in your companies that disrupt what you thought was going to happen. And your ability to succeed over time is directly related to your ability to navigate disruption.

So he says, you know what, I’m going to change my swing, even though that means I’m going to be messy. And in the short term, I’m going to win less. I think over the long-term, I’m going to be more effective. By two years later, he was winning 45% of the tournaments that he entered.

Jenn DeWall:

He went from 25% to a drop to five%, and then at 45%?

Yes, moved it up to 45%. So he came out at age 21, he’s winning 25%. He changes the swing. It gets messy. And two years later, he’s winning 45% of the time. I mean, he’s, this is what makes you a legend, right? And then he plateaued like a lot of businesses. He won like 25% every year for three years. Then he said, you know what? No. And he changed the swing again. In 2004, he changed his swing again. And by 2008, he was winning 68% of the tournaments that he entered.

Navigating Disruption

Gerry O’Brion:

And this is what’s possible only if you can navigate disruption. Well, and in fact, I’ve been working with a lot of clients during COVID— one keynote I did was for restaurant owners. I interviewed three, or maybe it was four restaurant owners whose business is up 20 to 30% during COVID because they didn’t put their heads in the sand. They doubled down, and they listened to their customers. They listened to what the needs were out there. And they navigated their businesses.  I work with a big veterinary distributor, and the distributor said some veterinary clinics are up dramatically. They have taken this opportunity and, and really made their business hunt. And others are just being decimated. And I said, what’s the difference? And he said, well, it turns out a lot of veterinarians don’t really like people that much. They really like animals. Right? Which makes sense.

And the people come in, and he called them Dr. Google. So the people come in with their animals, and they’re like Dr. Google, Oh, I think this is the problem. I think this is the problem. I think that’s the problem, whatever. And he’s like, now people are dropping off their animal. The animal comes in; everything is COVID friendly. The parents don’t come in with the animal. So the doctor just does what the doctor does with the animal, not with the people. And he doesn’t have. There’s no Dr. Google effect anymore. And they can increase the throughput of animals, and they’ve extended their hours, and they’ve made it easier, added on weekend hours and their businesses is way, way up for those who have navigated it effectively. So we need to be adept at changing in order to grow our businesses. So that’s just an important thing. But it’s okay if you’re messy in the short term, if the zoom doesn’t work or if the whatever, or if you’re struggling with, how do we stay connected to our customers in a virtual environment, it’s okay if it’s messy, it’s supposed to be messy. That’s the way it goes. When things get disrupted,

Growth is Messy

Jenn DeWall:

That is a very, just, I think a piece of advice that everyone needs to hear all of the time, but we don’t often do it. But I think the way that you shared the story of Tiger, someone that I can’t even picture. You know, even in your, obviously a big, much bigger speaker than me, but like, I can even take the fraction of the feedback that I get when I do something great or do something bad, how I hear about it. And it’s, it’s hard. But if you take someone that really is in the public eye, that has created a lot of success to then say, you know what? People might say things, or I may not win as much, or, you know, insert whatever that is. That could be the barrier to why I don’t change, but he still changed. And he went and weathered that disruption. I love that story. And just talking about that, because I think people really do forget that it is okay to be messy as your point. So thank you for sharing that because I think I also need that reminder. Any growth is worth being, you know, you gotta be a little bit messy. You’ve got to embrace the change, and you know what comes with it?

Gerry O’Brion:

You have the gift right now of external disruption that everyone is going through at the same time. What you see with companies is there’s a lot of pushback to change many times. And so CEOs will say, Oh, we’re gonna change this. We’re gonna do that. And their teams will push back on them. And the biggest pushback is when the company’s already doing well. They’re like, no! We’re already performing well. Why would you want to change this? And then they get messy in the short-term, performance goes down. And then the team says, see, I told you this was not a good idea, right? Well, now, we’re being forced through disruption. You know, someone could have said to Tiger Woods. See, I told you, you shouldn’t change your swing. You’re a mess. But what the, what the smart executives and smart business owners are looking for is what’s on the other side of the mess. And it’s sometimes you have to lead your people through that. And that’s the hard part. Now we’re being given the gift of, we all have to navigate this disruption, and we’re all in it together. So whatever you do, people are forgiving of it.

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah. And that’s, that is also a really nice thing to know that people have more empathy than what they ever had for. The phrase that I just love too, because I live, you know, everyone lives on Zoom is “tech happens.”  I was like,  I dunno, tech happens. It’s always going to happen, and it’s just going to continue to happen. And that’s okay. Like, it doesn’t mean what someone is talking about is, you know, not worth listening to just because the tech hap like there are so many things that happen outside of someone’s control. And I, I love that method of 2020, which is truly to be more empathetic for messiness. Like we don’t have to be perfect all the time. And as long as we’re still trying our best there, or if you’re trying, you know, for a CEO sitting in that chair, trying to think about how do I keep this business afloat?

How do I make sure that my employees have their paycheck? I’m going to take a risk that someone in the meeting is going to be, you know, just to what you said, like I told you, so it wasn’t gonna work, but they still are doing that. And I think I love this message. I mean, I facilitated a class last week, and I think so many people are very accustomed to being told no. Or saying what won’t work right now because of so many things that are outside of their control, but yet there’s still people that are, you know, it’s resilience, and they’re still figuring it out. And that can be a really lonely place because there are a lot of critics that will just be throwing their popcorn at you as you’re trying to do something bigger. And it’s okay. We can’t listen to the critics because that’s likely going to push you in the wrong direction or closer to shuttering your doors. So when you work with organizations out of curiosity, how do you help them? I know one of the things you really help organizations do is influence, and you can help them navigate disruption. But what are some of the things that you do?

Marketing and the Framework of Influence

Gerry O’Brion:

Yeah. At the most basic level, mostly I help companies understand how to influence customers, to buy from them versus all the other options out there. I mean, consumers, customers, clients today have a lot of options, and they can either buy from you or buy from one of your competitors or not spend the money at all. And I help companies understand how to create this framework of influence to become the number one choice in a really crowded, competitive market. A lot of people work in very commoditized markets. How do you get somebody to pick you? If you largely look a lot the same as all your competitors? And that’s the framework of influence that I teach.

The Four Questions

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah. Yeah. And that’s something that I think everyone can relate to. Like, it doesn’t matter what business you’re in. I feel like there are so many more players in any line of business than there ever was before. And just the ability to quickly enter the market and cause that disruption, we just need to be more agile. So I think that what you offer is just so essential to be able to maintain, sustain, and continue to blossom. So one of the things that you had mentioned, you know, cause you, you help people essentially, how would I say this? Get noticed, wanted by, you know, it’s what we all want. We want someone. If we’re selling a product or service, we obviously want people to come to us to trust us, to love us. So that means that we have to have influence. And one of the things that you talked about that you would teach people are four questions about influence. Can we just go? I, you know, I don’t know them, so I’m so excited to learn them. What are the four questions? And we can just start with the first one.

Gerry O’Brion:

Yeah. The four- well, before we get to that, let me just tell you a story of how this kind of all got started for me. So in the early two-thousands, I left my job first job at Proctor & Gamble. And I moved to Colorado to work for Coors brewing company. And a couple of weeks after I got to Coors, there was a big marketing department offsite, right. So we’re all leaving the office building to go to a hotel 10 minutes away. And just to talk about marketing for the whole day. So I’m leaving the office building. I’m walking out next to the chief marketing officer. Now, this is my boss’s boss’s boss’s boss, the head of the whole marketing department. And we’re walking out, and he says, Oh Gerry, Hey, why don’t you just ride over there with me? And I’m thinking, yeah, great opportunity to know the Chief Marketing Officer.

Right? And then we’re walking out to his car. It’s this big, long, super sleek brand new Mercedes-Benz, and I’m thinking, Ooh, successful. And then it occurs to me. I’ve got 10 minutes in the car with the Chief Marketing Officer. I better ask him a really smart question. So I look smart. So I’m thinking I’m ticking through the questions in my mind. I think what’s the most important marketing question of all? And he pulls out. And so I turned to him, and I say Lee, why is it that a consumer chooses to buy one beer versus another beer? And I’m thinking, this guy is about to give me a 10-minute lesson on how people choose and how we as marketers influence people to choose us versus them. And instead, he turns to me, and he says, well, geez, Gerry, if I knew the answer to that question, we’d all be rich.

Jenn DeWall:

Okay.

Gerry O’Brion:

And I’m thinking, well, you appear to be rich. And you’re the head of marketing for a $4 billion beer company with ten beer brands under one roof. And you don’t know the answer to the question of how we influence people to buy this versus that? I spent the rest of my career learning, honing, creating this framework of influence that shows people how people choose and how do we influence them to buy. And that’s kind of how the whole thing started. And it applies regardless if your business is B to C, B to B, professional services, like an attorney or a dentist or anything, restaurant owner, anything in between how we influence people is the same. And if we understand how it works, then we’re off to the races and being able to influence people. So four questions, and we can go through them one by one.

Jenn DeWall:

I love that story, by the way. I mean, I think first and foremost, I can relate to those moments when we are earlier on our career, or maybe we’re just exposed to someone that’s at that like high, high, high level. And you’re, you know, we want to be smart. We want to show people like, and there’s a good, there’s a great reason why you hired me. Look at how great I am. But then I just love that. Like, he also was very playful of like, Hey, we’re all still trying to figure this out. You know, that’s, I think, what business is. You can’t ever just assume that you’ve got the formula, and it’s always going to stay the same, and you can just continue to replicate it without any adaptations. So I think that’s a great story to talk about influence, but yeah, let’s go through them.

Gerry O’Brion:

So I do have the formula, and I’m about to reveal it.

Jenn DeWall:

Oh, all right. I’m ready. I’m ready.

Question#1  – Who Are You Influencing?

Gerry O’Brion:

So there are four questions. Question one seems really super simple, but it’s who are you influencing? Number one, you have to really understand. And one of the big mistakes that small companies and large make is that they try to be relevant to everyone. They try to market to everyone. The reason that we don’t get as many referrals as we want is because we’ve made it too hard for people to know what to say on our behalf and who to say it to. There’s a auto repair shop in Denver that I- I used to drive a Volkswagen. I took my Volkswagen in there and I started to get to know the owner. And it was this tiny little, two-bay auto repair shop. And I was asking him about his business. He said, well when I first opened up, I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. I was a certified auto mechanic. So I leased this two bay auto repair shop. I opened up and it’s called Sixth Avenue Auto. And he had a big sign out front that said we service imports and domestics. Yep. That’s all of them. That’s, that’s, that’s everybody right? And he said, well, I didn’t want to limit myself because I wanted to be the biggest, most successful business possible.

Nobody came in, but he thought that everyone within three miles around would just come in to get their car fixed there and nobody was coming in. So he put out door hangers all within three miles around said, come on in and get a a $20 oil change at Sixth Avenue Auto. People flooded in and nobody came back, his business wasn’t doing well. And so he said, you know what? I realized? I said, what? He goes, well, when all those people came in, it seemed like a lot of them drove Audis & Volkswagens. I’m like, Oh, he goes, so I changed my website to say, we specialize now to even hoax wagon. I’m like, Oh, what happened? He goes, well, people didn’t come in from three miles around. People started coming in from all over Denver. And he said, you know why? I’m like, why now he’s got the insight. Right? I said, why? He said, well, because people don’t want to just go anywhere to get their car fixed. And they don’t necessarily want to go to the dealership, but they do want to go to someone who specializes in their kind of car. It’s the same reason we go to a knee surgeon for knee surgery and not a heart surgeon, right? People want to go to someone that specializes in their specific situation because their car is important. Now, if I don’t want to pay to go to the dealer, I do want to go to someone that knows my car back and forth. He tripled his business in 18 months because he narrowed his focus over and over.

This happens, picture yourself, being at a party. You walk into the party, you meet somebody. You don’t know, you say, what do you do? And they say, I’m a financial advisor. What do you want to do? Run? Because the next thing they’re going to say is, Hey, we should get coffee. And you’re like, Oh gosh, come on, don’t sell me. Now. There’s a financial advisor. I worked with actually here in Denver. And he says something different. And there’s a lot of good answers to this question. People say, what do you do? He says, I’m a financial advisor, but I only work with a very specific kind of client.

Narrow Your Focus

Now what do you want to know? Well, what kind of client? Instead of running away, you’re leaning in learning more because he’s given you the idea of specificity. Now, in his case, there’s a lot of good answers. So this, in his case, he only works with self-made millionaires. He works with a very small number of them. He helps them transition, which is a very unique, you know, phase of life. And he’s, he’s done it for a long time and he knows all the ins and outs of how to do it. And now you’re thinking, Oh my gosh, my aunt just sold her company, she should probably talk to you because you serve someone exactly like her. The more you narrow your focus, the more clear it becomes, who people should refer you to and what they should say about you. So narrowing your focus.

Jenn DeWall:

Gerry, I love your stories. By the way, I feel like I was just so engaged in that. It’s true. I mean, I’ve absolutely, you know, cause I think financial advisors sometimes, or any position where you perceive that they’re just going to sell you after they say what they do. Like that’s such an interesting way to flip the script. Is it does that by saying, well, I only work with a specific group of people or a specific X then you’re like, wait, I, yeah, I don’t want to run anymore. I want to know more about what you do. It’s so much more intriguing. And that is a point of mastery that I think people forget is acknowledging maybe the elephant in the room, which is someone’s trepidation of wanting to hear more and playing with that. That’s such a great story.

Gerry O’Brion:

People are afraid to narrow their focus because they don’t know where the next client’s gonna come from. But the reality is the next client’s going to come from. And by the way, when you narrow your focus, you get more expertise and better at serving those specific clients that you’re the best at lots of companies have a lot of clients that are not profitable and they’re a big pain in the butt because they’re afraid to fire them. They’re afraid to get rid of them because they don’t know who’s going to come in the door next. But if you narrow your focus, it’s it clarifies your marketing plan. It clarifies your sales plan. It clarifies your messages. So narrowing your focus. What, who are your customers? Question one.

Jenn DeWall:

Who are your people? I mean, and I feel like I’m still learning that lesson and that one’s a hard one to reinforce. I know that when I started a coaching business back in 2013, I naturally wanted to try and serve everyone, every organization. And then when I figured out new, I actually just want to help millennials navigate like the ups and downs. And that’s where I established my thought leadership. But now I’m at a different point in my career slash business. And I think you still get caught up in, well, wait, I don’t even want to niche. So for me, I feel like it’s this expanding process where you can get comfortable specializing. And then you can maybe go back into scarcity sometimes and forget that benefit of why we to do it and like reinforce that you need to stay consistent in knowing who you’re talking to, that you can’t go. And just kind of go back to talking to everyone because you will lose your influence. I just, that’s such a valuable message that I think people just forget, or they’re just afraid like myself. Like I don’t want to miss the business or I don’t want to do that. And that’s a great point to just bring back to people. So that’s our start. We got to know our audience. What is our next question?

Question #2 – You’ve Narrowed Your Audience, Now What Are Your Insights?

Gerry O’Brion:

Next question is. So once you’ve narrowed your focus to that specific audience, what are your insights about them? And what do I mean by insights? Everyone who you’re trying to influence, they have things they want more of, or things they want less of, related to what you provide. Said another way, more powerfully, they have things they hope for and things they fear. If they’re going to give you the contract, if they’re going to buy from you, if they’re going to choose you, versus the other options, they have things they hope will happen. And they have things that they fear could happen. Now. Brain science shows us that people are about twice as motivated to avoid what they don’t want as they are to get what they do. What is it that your clients are afraid will happen? If they hire you? Said another way, what is it your clients are afraid will happen if they hire someone else and they don’t hire you? What are their fears? Pay attention to what they are trying to avoid. What are their frustrations?

Gerry O’Brion:

So insights, where do they want more of? So I’ll give you another financial planner insight. Let’s just stick with a financial planner idea for a second. So I have a buddy who’s starting a financial planning organization, brand new from scratch. And we’re talking about narrowing his focus. He grew up in a household that had two teachers in it. Now think of the insight. So now he’s gonna, he said, you know what? My core audience is teachers with young kids. Now, Jenn, what do you think from a financial planning standpoint is on the minds- we’re going to get insights. We’re going to pull them right out of you right now. What do you think is on the mind of teachers with young kids on their minds?

Jenn DeWall:

I mean, in terms of finances, it’s whether it’s investing in their kid’s college education, their 529, or whether it’s just their financial situation in the future.

What Do People Want More Of? What do They Want Less Of?

Gerry O’Brion:

The first thing you said, trying to figure out, how am I going to pay for my kids to go to college? What about this 529 thing. It turns out that 529 is not the only financial strategy to help people go to college. In fact, because of tax regulations and all sorts of different things. And the way that financial aid works, sometimes a 529 is not the best option. And teachers who don’t make a lot of money who are highly educated. They all went to college, but they don’t have a lot of money, and they want their kids to go to college. They all want their kids to go to college. So deep insights, remember, what do people want more of, less of? Hope for or fear? I fear I’m not going to have enough money to get for my kid to go to college.

I fear I’m not good at money and finances. I don’t know the best way to do this. I need someone to show me how over the next 18 years, 16 years, 15, 13, 12 years. What if I got a late start? How do I get where I need to be in order for my kids to go to college? My friend is going to specialize in doing that. Now I want you to think about this. If you narrow your focus and you specialize, your insights are easier to get. If he wants to be a financial planner for everybody, what are the insights? People want more money, not less.

If we say teachers with young kids, what are your insights? We can come up with 15 or 20 of them right now. And we can create specific programs for them to meet their goals. And what happens? Teachers refer other teachers who refer other teachers. Referrals become the easiest thing. Ever. Your marketing plan gets married, very narrowly focused. You could do lunch and learns at schools, high schools, grade schools. I don’t know, but PTA meetings or I don’t even know what the heck the school meetings are. Everyone will want to go to it because the whole thing is how do you, as a teacher, get your kids through college. So let me show you some strategies over and above 529 plans. It’ll help you get better financial aid and save more money and be more profitable over time. But I mean, do you see the power of insights, of understanding hopes and fears, of narrowing your focus? So question two, what are your insights about those ideal customers?

Jenn DeWall:

You make this seem so easy. Like right now I’m like, of course, yeah, this is, you know, you, you, do. You have a way of describing it that I’m like, gosh, I’m so silly. Cause I’m trying to think about even what we do for Crestcom, you know, we, we offer leadership development and you know, one of the things that I describe it as converting and we sometimes as a network will say, it’s, it is developing managers into leaders, like helping people be maybe less tactical and more human. So for lack of a better description, but maybe in that sentence, it’s probably still too broad. And B I don’t even think that I address the fear, like what an organization has when they are investing. I mean, the thing that I can think of is not wanting to just invest in training to not have any result. And that’s one thing that I know that we do well, because we really encourage action plans and behavior change, but I need to keep going on that fear because I think that’s one of the few ones that I can say.

And there’s probably people in our network that are like, Jenn, you can do this so much better. So I apologize to everyone for trying to do this off the cuff, but it’s just making me think. And I’m, you know, I think I can probably do a better job because I love what we do. Right. Like I love what we do. We have this podcast, we do that, but we want to impact, I want to influence more people and I know that our company does, but I just need to get better at how I talk about it.

Gerry O’Brion:

You know, that’s the biggest joke about training, right? What if I train my people so well and they leave and the flip side is what if you don’t train them and they stay?

Jenn DeWall:

Right. Yes. And training is just-I really like to think, of it as development. It’s a beautiful thing. And there’s total trust that if you develop them and they do leave, I mean, first and foremost, hopefully, they’ve also then been better at developing everyone around them, so you’re not as, I guess you’re not as devastated by the knowledge gap that’s created. But two hopefully they then will also support your business because it’s a great, still partnership. I mean, the thing that I’ll say to my coaching clients is your parents never birth you for the job that you have today. That’s not, you know, when mom and dad were like, I’m going to have a child and I want you to work at Coors your entire life, Gerry. Or I want you to do this or that. Like, that’s not what it is. So we are going to change. We just have to be more understanding that change is natural, but how do you make everything seem so easy, Gerry,

Gerry O’Brion:

I am a keynote speaker. This is what I do. Mostly what I do is I stand on stages and communicate complicated things in a simple way. So that audience members can go take action on it. You know, how many times have we been at conferences where, you know, you hear this great speaker, it’s like, woo, that’s great. And, but then you don’t know what to do or how to go do it. The reason that people bring me in for a keynote is I give a very actionable framework that can actually be used when you walk out of that room. And so I need to describe it in a way where they go, Oh yeah, I understand the concept. And I see how to implement it in my own business, which is what you’re doing right now. You’re saying, Oh wait, I can see this. I can see myself in this question. You know, I understand what to do with this or how to put it into action.

Jenn DeWall:

Right? Yeah. And to go deeper than just the, I would say the low hanging fruit of which is the ease of describing it to recognize that you’ve got to go a little bit deeper, and understanding that end-user or the individual, just to be able to make, describe the value. Because if it’s just generic. Yeah. Who the heck is going to want to invest in that? If it doesn’t seem, you know, beneficial. So I, okay. Let’s go into number three because I can, I can geek over all of this stuff probably all day, because I’m so intrigued in this conversation. What’s question number three?

Question #3- What is the Desired Outcome?

Gerry O’Brion:

Number three is your outcome. So many times in business, we want to talk about ourselves. So let me tell you about our business. Let me tell you about me. Let me tell you about us and what we do. Let me tell you about what makes us special. You know, what your clients and your customers care about more than they care about you and your business? Themselves. What can you do for me? What can you do for me? And you know, there’s been a lot said, you know, people have heard of Simon Sinek, the guru. What’s your why? Here’s the reality for almost every business out there that sells something for money, your customers, if you’re lucky, maybe they care why you do what you do. Maybe they care why you’re in training or you sell air conditioners or you sell tires or you sell cars or use you name it or you whatever. Maybe they care why you became an attorney. You know what? They really care about what you do for me. I give you the money because of what you do for me, not why you do what you do. That’s so nice and inspirational. It’s wonderful, but I care what you do or me. So make no mistake. People don’t give you the money because of why you got into the business you’re in. They just don’t.

Jenn DeWall:

People forget that. Like, why do people forget that? It’s not about you? Like, I mean, I know people aren’t just blatant narcissist all the time, only thinking about themselves. Why do we think about that? Like, why do we forget that?

Gerry O’Brion:

Before we talk about ourselves, we need to talk about them. Now here’s the trick pay attention. This is how this works. You take your insights. If your insight was, I want my kid to go to college by age 18, the outcome comes directly from your insights, right? My outcome is my promise. If I’m a financial planner and I’m going to make a promise to you, the outcome is I work with parents who want to- who will be able to- send their kids to college by age 18. Even if they’re teachers, right? The outcome is kid goes to college, right? So the insight becomes the promise. The insight becomes the outcome.

Gerry O’Brion:

You know, I work with contractors or different people like that. Oh, we deliver on time. The promise is we deliver on time. The insight is, if it’s not on time, I’m going to be over budget. Or my boss is going to fire me or whatever the fear, right? The outcome is we’ll be on time. But if you only speak about the outcome, the promise, what we deliver, it ends up sounding like marketing fluff. Like just try this one on. So I’m Gerry, I’m going to open up a pizza place. Okay? I’m going to tell you my marketing. I want you to tune your ears and listen up and see how this strikes your gut, your subconscious, your ear. Your ear, your gut knows when something is marketing fluff and we write it and we think it’s good. Listen to this. Come on into Gerry’s pizza. Our pizza is better!

Jenn DeWall:

Right?

Question #4 – What is Your “Because”?

Gerry O’Brion:

It’s absurd. But we put this garbage on our websites. Like, you know, we have higher quality. We build better relationships. Our product is better. We’re the best in the industry. And your brain goes, because? You haven’t finished the sentence of influence. Question four. This is the reason why associations bring me in, why CEOs get inspired to change everything in their organizations disrupt because they realize they haven’t finished the sentence of influence. Question four is what’s your Because? What’s the proof that you can deliver the outcome? What’s the proof that you can deliver your promise differently or better than everyone else. We have higher quality because- your brain wants you to finish the sentence of influence, inserting something that’s believable and repeatable after the outcome that you promise. And this is what most companies, most sales teams, most marketers, most videos don’t do. And it doesn’t allow our brains to want to buy from us. It’s your Because.

This is the number one thing that companies implement to change their trajectory of success. That’s why I get brought into organizations is to help people find their Because. Now here’s how it works for hundreds of years, marketers or for hundreds of years, economists have been trying to convince us that all decisions are logical, rational decisions, right? Prices go up, demand goes down, prices, go down, demand goes up, but we know decisions are not all logical. We’re dealing with things like what we fear and what might happen or what might not happen? Or what’s my boss going to say, or what’s my spouse going to say, or what’s my father-in-law going to say. And we’re afraid of what’s going to happen. We’re hopeful for what will happen. So we know that decisions, aren’t just logical rational decisions for 120 years, marketers have been trying to convince us that all decisions are emotional.

We make emotional decisions, which is true. But have you ever seen like a Super Bowl commercial, it made you laugh or made you cry and you got all emotional. And then someone says, Oh my God, what was that ad for? And you’re like yeah, I don’t remember what the ad was for, but it was so funny. He’s like that doesn’t sell anything, either. Emotion for the sake of emotion also doesn’t sell anything. So the 2002 Nobel prize winner in economics was not an economist. He was a psychologist who unraveled how our brains actually make these decisions. And what he discovered is our gut, our subconscious, our brain is looking for proof that we’re making a good call. I was in a room with a hundred people one day that do HVAC installations. And we’re talking about pricing and we’re talking about finding there because, and one of the guys stands up. He goes, well, here’s the crazy thing is that people want to get a really good price. They want to get a really good price. He goes, not only because they want to save money, but because they want to prove to their neighbor that they got a good deal. I’m like, what really? And he goes, Oh, and all the other, Oh yeah. Oh yeah. They all want to get a good deal. So they can say to their father-in-law and their neighbor, their, their dad. Oh yeah. I got a great offer. I got a great deal. Okay.

Jenn DeWall:

Wait, can I interrupt you? Because you and I are both from the same state in the US And when I think about Wisconsin, like one of the things that comes to mind as you’re sharing that is I can give, and I know that I do this myself, right? So I’m not just, you know, calling out other people back there, like my friends and everything, but you can say, you know, Gerry, I really like your shirt. And then the first thing is like, things I got it on sale. And it was only $10. Like, that’s always the first thing it’s like, you lead with price. I never asked about the price, but there is a lot of accomplishment and pride around a good deal.

Gerry O’Brion:

So regardless if it’s around price or what it’s or me, I have to justify something to my boss that I made a good decision. The way I like to put it is our brain needs a rational reason to make an emotional decision. Our brain needs a rational reason to make an emotional decision. Oh, come on in to Gerry’s Pizza. Our pizza is better, but because now look at Papa John’s. Papa John’s was a tiny little startup company back in the nineties said our pizza is better because we have better ingredients, better pizza. That’d be an ingredient for the pizza. They got sued by Pizza Hut. Back in the nineties, Pizza Hut said, you can’t say your pizza is better. Papa John’s wins the lawsuit because they use fresh sliced tomatoes and filtered water. Not saying your “because” has to be that good. The thing is you have to have one.

Jenn DeWall:

Seriously. That’s like, wow. I had no idea about that.

Gerry O’Brion:

You go to Papa John’s website. Every single one of their ingredients is listed. What makes it superior? Their entire organization is aligned around one idea of how we are going to be the best choice for everyone. And so now everything there’s videos, there’s ingredient lists. Their entire marketing campaign is all around, better ingredients, better pizza. Now that’s a simple example. A lot of our customers, our clients, they don’t deal in simple industries. I deal with contractors who have big 20, $30 million contracts. You’re “because”- the because for Papa John’s is simple and easy. Many of these larger companies have multiple “because” that are used for different people. In the long sales cycle, you might be influencing four or five different people during your sales cycle. Over six months. Each of those people has their own insights, their own outcomes that you want to promise to them and their own pieces of proof that because is an engineer is going to relate to a different because than a CEO than a CFO, then the operations people, right?

Your Brain Wants a “Because” not Marketing Fluff

Gerry O’Brion:

And so the cycle goes on and on insights outcome, because who are you influencing insights outcome, because, and that’s the framework that I teach. You’re because makes what you say more believable and more repeatable. I believe that my gut believes it. My brain believes that my subconscious believes that because you’ve finished the sentence of influence. You’ve given me a rational reason to make the emotional decision. And if we don’t give you that linkage, your brain thinks what we’re saying sounds like marketing fluff. And that’s the framework of influence. That’s the power of your “because”, your piece of proof in your brain,

Jenn DeWall:

Let me see. And I want to preface this to our audience. I do not consider myself a salesperson, but I do understand that we are likely as role of leaders, we’re all influencing someone, whether we are intentionally doing it, or so I’m just going to try this on. I am not promising you that I am going to be good at this. So if anyone’s listening and they’re like, Oh, , real bad at trying to figure this out.

Jenn DeWall:

So I’m going to try and apply it for Crestcom right. You would think that I would be able to do this really well because I, you know, I teach leadership every single day almost, but I can do it this. So insight. If I take an insight maybe of, you know, turnover. I guess an insight of knowing that organizations that are going to invest in leadership would be maybe they want to reduce turnover and increase their engagement. So then they can reduce their knowledge gap and create happier employees. I don’t know if that’s the insight, if that even is too broad, I have no idea. Remember guys, I’m just trying this on. So then the outcome that they want to, you know, reduce their turnover and to improve engagement because we know productivity and things like that. But then the, because is that then about us? Because we do this- in a sense of we do this because we are all about sustained behavior change. We know that you can invest in a lot of like garbage trainings and don’t do anything with it. Would that be our because?

Gerry O’Brion:

It’s a really good question and no, it is not.

Jenn DeWall:

But I’m happy that I did this because I feel like I’d much rather be the Guinea pig. So then hopefully someone can take your insights and continue to grow.

How to Provide Proof

Gerry O’Brion:

Always! So let me explain it to you and I’ll give you a better, because then you’ll see the difference. So you’re because it’s a piece of proof that you can deliver your outcome, right? So now think about this. The insight is we want to reduce turnover. The outcome that you promise is if you use our training, you’ll reduce turnover. The reason that you’ll reduce turnover is not because you guys are so great at training, right? That might be true. That may be true. That you’re really great at training. What if you had a study that said of the last five companies that have that have implemented our training program, their employee satisfaction survey of “intends to stay at the company for more than 12 months” score went from 48% to 79%. That’s a piece of proof where you go, if you do this, your employees, I can prove to you they’re more engaged. Look, we’ve got this client, we’ve got that testimonial. We’ve got this statistic. It’s not because you want to do it. Or because you’re, you’re saying you’re so good. It’s because there’s proof there’s or someone else.

Gerry O’Brion:

And I’ve got 15 different ways that you create because it’s one of them is statistics. And one of them is what we call social proof, which would be video testimonials of clients saying, Hey, we had a real problem with our millennial folks. We were, we were having turnover. We had, we were in a constant state of hiring. And what we found out, now you let her or him repeat the insight, was that millennials were leaving us because they didn’t think we were investing in their futures. And turns out that one of the insights about millennials is that they want to get, they get blamed for it, Oh, they want to get ahead quickly. Well they do, so did all of us at that age, it’s not a problem. It’s a good thing. And here’s the thing. If they don’t believe they can get ahead quickly at your company, because you’re not training them or you’re not developing them, or you’re not coaching or mentoring them, they’re going to go somewhere else that’s got a better training, developing, mentoring, coaching program, or a better org chart, or a better, a five-year strategy plan. There’s a whole bunch of reasons why they leave your organization and it might be you!

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah. You just listed everything of like how I even have a job as a coach of like what companies I think were really reluctant to even grab onto is understanding the, you know, these passions. And instead of judging them being like, how do we work with them instead of just working against them.

Gerry O’Brion:

Right. So you can see what I just did is I just listed like ten insights, right? Insight, insight, insight outcome is that your people are going to stay longer that’s because, because, because, Oh, because this testimonial said that people did, Oh, because we have statistics and we track our success rates. Oh, because we’ve got something from the millennials saying they finally invested in me. Oh. Because, because, because, because, because now I’ll give you a couple of super high-level techniques. One is, what can you say about your company? Now not everyone can get to this, but what can you say about your company that we are the only, we’re the only training company who… Now that’s hard. That’s not easy to do, but if you can do it, that gives your what you say. Next gives you a superpower. You know, I’m the only keynote speaker that worked for four different billion-dollar brands before he became a professional speaker.

Gerry O’Brion:

That’s arguable, it may be true. I don’t know if that’s true, but you see it’s my Because my, because people say, well, Gerry, what’s your Because, Oh, it’s because I worked for billion-dollar brands. I know what Coors did. I know what Red Robin did, and I can show your company how to do it. Regardless if you have no marketing budget, I can show you the framework of influence. And they go, Ooh, we want to learn that. Our people want to learn that. Our tire installers, retailers, want to learn that are you know propane dealer network wants to learn how to stand out because it’s a commodity. I sold beer beers, a commodity. So as sort of a lot of things like tires, propane, seriously, funeral services, attorneys, you name it.

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah. The things that we don’t even realize that we all need that there are a million options. It seems like.

Insights, Outcome, Because

Gerry O’Brion:

Yeah. Last year, my number one client type was HVAC installers. Seriously. Talk about, I mean, it’s tough. It’s tough. So, so that’s the framework of influence. Who are you narrowing your focus to? Insights, outcome, because. Insights, outcome, because. And the reason why CEOs bring me in so often is because they realize they don’t have a good Because. They go, wow. On our website, we’re saying we’re the best relationships are highest quality. And they don’t have an ink in there because it’s buried on page two, paragraph four of their about page, because here’s the thing, great companies have things that they’re doing that are unique and different that are valuable. Most of them are not telling anyone. And I help them uncover those unique things that they do.

Jenn DeWall:

I mean, Gerry, the way I’m not like I could probably have this conversation all day, which we know that no, one’s going to want to do it all day. But cause that’s just not real life, but you just really have it. I mean, this with so much just gratitude and appreciation for what you do, because you really have a great way of describing it. Like I felt like, I mean, I, you know, I’m an educated individual. I have my own business. Sure. I have my MBA, like all these qualifiers. Right. That should make me perfectly able to know everything, but I don’t of course. Right. Like, and I just think the way that you describe it makes it feel very accessible to me. And it’s not also in a way that is maybe, you know, patronizing because it’s like, you should know this. It’s hard.

Jenn DeWall:

It’s not an easy thing because you can, I know my brain, you can maybe get stuck on one piece of it and you can maybe narrow your audience really, really well. But then you forget about the, you know, you know, the insights, but you forget about the outcome and the because. And I just thank you so much for even taking your time to share all these examples. Like with sincere appreciation. I am very grateful for this. I feel like I already want to send this out and it’s not even gone through all of our editing. And I’m like, everyone needs to listen to this. You do a really great job of making it very simple and easy to understand. And thank you for that.

Gerry O’Brion:

My pleasure. And this is why when I come into a company and work one-on-one or why a company comes to one of my day-long workshops, I’ll put multiple companies, multiple teams in a room, you know, not during COVID, but it takes a full day to really go through the four questions and to really uncover and start to develop your because, and I’ll do it. We’ll, we’ll do nothing but work on insights outcome because for a full day with an executive team, a really smart executive team at a company, and we’ll come up with 30, 40, 50, 60 insights. We’ll narrow them. We’ll come up with a lot of outcomes. We’ll come up with a dozen or two dozen Because’s. We’ll narrow the focus. And then it gets into a second day before you can figure out the implementation and execution plan of where are you going to put it? Are you going to build it in Salesforce, in the sales flow, how are going to put it in the videos and your website and all these kinds of things. It takes some time and it takes some, some guidance. It sounds easy, but the work to your point is challenging. It’s hard, but it’s worth it because it can change the trajectory of your success without a doubt. And I’ve seen it happen.

Jenn DeWall:

I’m inspired! I want to go and look at my own business or even think about how I can, you know, make better impacts for Crestcom! Because I love what we do. I’m a leadership nerd. I want to teach everyone about leadership, but you know, that passion is great. But if I can’t answer insight outcome because, and do it well in a way that people want to invest, then you know, I’m not going to have the impact. And gosh, thank you for that. How, because I want people to be able to get in touch with you. How do they connect with you? Is it going to your website? I know that they can book you for these day-long workshops or even for keynoting, which I know you’ll do you do both virtual and live obviously because this is the state that we live in, but how do they connect with you?

Connect with Gerry

Gerry O’Brion:

So my website is called whatbigbreandsknow.com. And here’s the key. Here’s how you spell my name is Gerry with a G O’Brion. Listen up O B R I O N. I’m one of the only O’Brion with an O N on all of LinkedIn. If you put in Gerry O’Brion, I will come up. Because it’s only myself and my cousins that I have that spelling. So I’m very easy to find, but whatbigbrandsknow.com. And I would love to be a keynoter for any or virtual or live any kind of conference. So I think we’re going to be live again April or May next year is my hope and my intention and what I think the vaccines will allow hopefully. But yeah, keynote is really what I do, but also bring coming into companies or, you know, I’m happy to do some virtual kind of unique things these days too, because I’m still around and I’m, you know, if people want to reach out to me and say, Hey, can you help me? I can give them the options of how that works, but yeah. Please reach out, connect on LinkedIn and yeah.

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah. Well, and I think right now, even just your opening story with like, if I had to recap- like even thinking about how can we not only about the four questions, but how can we embrace the mess? Like of trying. I think that was a really important opening that you shared. I don’t know, Gerry, I just feel awkwardly like fangirling, because they really have enjoyed this conversation more than, you know, and please, I hope that everyone else has enjoyed this and connect with Gerry on LinkedIn or go to his website, book him to help your organization because we know that if you, especially for the people that may be listening that, you know, have just a big idea, like how I love leadership. And I know people that are listening also might love leadership, but they also love something else.

Jenn DeWall:

And how can we make their messages come to light? So then they can make that change. I just love that you can be that catalyst for people. So thank you so much for just taking your time to, you know, just sharing your time and expertise with us at Crestcom. I greatly appreciate it.

Gerry O’Brion:

My pleasure. Thank you so much.

Jenn DeWall:

Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit. I hope that you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I know I’m walking away with a lot of different insights and what I’m going to do differently. If you liked this episode, please share it with your friends, share it with your boss, spread the news. I think we could all benefit from the Power of Because, but if you want to get to know more about Gerry, you can head over to his website. WhatBigBrandsKnow.com and it’s Gerry O’Brion that’s Gerry, G E R R Y O B R I O N. Thank you so much for listening and don’t forget to leave us a review on your favorite podcast streaming service until next time.

 

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