#190 – Eric Schwitzgebel on whether the US is conscious
Jun 7, 2024
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Eric Schwitzgebel, a philosophy professor at UC Riverside and author of "A Theory of Jerks," dives into the bizarre realm of consciousness. He explores why our intuitions often fail when grappling with profound questions about reality, such as the provocative idea that the United States could be a conscious entity. Thought experiments like "supersquids" challenge listeners to rethink what consciousness might entail. Schwitzgebel emphasizes the intrinsic weirdness of existence and the importance of embracing it while probing deeper into the nature of consciousness itself.
Intuitions struggle in explaining cosmic and consciousness mysteries due to evolutionary limitations.
Bizarre consciousness theories challenge intuitive beliefs and advocate open-mindedness towards unconventional ideas.
Contemplating whether the U.S. displays consciousness raises concerns about attributing shared consciousness to collective entities.
Exploring indeterminacy in consciousness and moral implications of dream experiences highlight complexities in understanding conscious existence.
Deep dives
The Influence of Intuitions on Consciousness and Perception
Intuitions, shaped by evolutionary, developmental, and social histories, guide judgments on survival-relevant actions. While intuitions excel in practical scenarios like recognizing danger or organizing social events, they falter in deciphering complex cosmic or consciousness mysteries due to lacking evolutionary pressure. For instance, the perception that intuitive responses may lead to skewed understanding on unveiling fundamental truths or evaluating extraterrestrial consciousness.
The Diverse Nature of Consciousness Theories
Consciousness theories highlight the bizarre yet dubious nature of foundational claims on cosmology and consciousness. Schwitzgebel's propositions in "The Weirdness of the World" challenge common intuitive beliefs, advocating for open-mindedness towards unconventional philosophical ideas. From materialist perspectives questioning reality's structure to pondering consciousness in entities like the U.S. or space aliens, embracing uncertainty is pivotal in navigating complex existential inquiries.
Exploring Materialism and Consciousness in the U.S.
In contemplating whether the United States exhibits consciousness akin to individual beings, pondering information processing becomes pivotal. The differentiation between neuronal processes in human brains and information exchange among Americans raises concerns about attributing shared consciousness to a collective entity. The discussion extends into defining consciousness based on shared goals, self-monitoring behaviors, and information processing dynamics within societal frameworks.
Challenging Assumptions and Copernican Principles in Consciousness
Through a Copernican argument, the inquiry delves into alien consciousness scenarios and the challenging quest to differentiate conscious entities like rabbits, space aliens, and potential U.S. consciousness. The exploration grapples with constructing coherent rules to delineate consciousness while preserving a philosophical balance between individual and collective cognition paradigms. At the core lies a methodological shift towards embracing uncertainty in the quest for understanding conscious existence.
Understanding Consciousness and Vision of Group Consciousness
Exploring various philosophical and theoretical ideas discussed in the podcast, the conversation delves into the concept of group consciousness, drawing comparisons to early 20th-century fascist ideologies that viewed countries as conscious entities. It examines the implications of considering countries, communities, and even inanimate objects like rocks as potentially conscious entities, raising questions about overlapping and nested consciousness. The discussion highlights the complexities and potential implications of viewing entities beyond individuals as having consciousness.
Indeterminacy in Consciousness and Dreaming
The podcast delves into the idea of indeterminacy in consciousness, likening it to examples of dim lights versus on/off states, and contrasting it with the concept of determinate consciousness. It explores the controversial notion of consciousness continuum and the difficulty in conceptualizing indeterminate conscious states. The conversation also touches on the complexity of dream experiences, questioning the accuracy of dream memories and the moral implications of dream experiences.
Implications of Dreaming and Simulation Hypothesis
Further, the discussion extends to the moral implications of dream experiences and the possibility of living in a simulation. It explores the practical consequences of believing in the dream possibility, such as discounting long-term consequences and altering decision-making processes. The potential impact of dream improvement research on ethical considerations and the analogy between dream experiences and the simulation hypothesis are also addressed.
"One of the most amazing things about planet Earth is that there are complex bags of mostly water — you and me – and we can look up at the stars, and look into our brains, and try to grapple with the most complex, difficult questions that there are. And even if we can’t make great progress on them and don’t come to completely satisfying solutions, just the fact of trying to grapple with these things is kind of the universe looking at itself and trying to understand itself. So we’re kind of this bright spot of reflectiveness in the cosmos, and I think we should celebrate that fact for its own intrinsic value and interestingness." —Eric Schwitzgebel
In today’s episode, host Luisa Rodriguez speaks to Eric Schwitzgebel — professor of philosophy at UC Riverside — about some of the most bizarre and unintuitive claims from his recent book, The Weirdness of the World.
Why our intuitions seem so unreliable for answering fundamental questions about reality.
What the materialist view of consciousness is, and how it might imply some very weird things — like that the United States could be a conscious entity.
Thought experiments that challenge our intuitions — like supersquids that think and act through detachable tentacles, and intelligent species whose brains are made up of a million bugs.
Eric’s claim that consciousness and cosmology are universally bizarre and dubious.
How to think about borderline states of consciousness, and whether consciousness is more like a spectrum or more like a light flicking on.
The nontrivial possibility that we could be dreaming right now, and the ethical implications if that’s true.
Why it’s worth it to grapple with the universe’s most complex questions, even if we can’t find completely satisfying solutions.
And much more.
Chapters:
Cold open |00:00:00|
Luisa’s intro |00:01:10|
Bizarre and dubious philosophical theories |00:03:13|
The materialist view of consciousness |00:13:55|
What would it mean for the US to be conscious? |00:19:46|
Supersquids and antheads thought experiments |00:22:37|
Alternatives to the materialist perspective |00:35:19|
Are our intuitions useless for thinking about these things? |00:42:55|
Key ingredients for consciousness |00:46:46|
Reasons to think the US isn’t conscious |01:01:15|
Overlapping consciousnesses [01:09:32]
Borderline cases of consciousness |01:13:22|
Are we dreaming right now? |01:40:29|
Will we ever have answers to these dubious and bizarre questions? |01:56:16|
Producer and editor: Keiran Harris Audio engineering lead: Ben Cordell Technical editing: Simon Monsour, Milo McGuire, and Dominic Armstrong Additional content editing: Katy Moore and Luisa Rodriguez Transcriptions: Katy Moore
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