When you find yourself drowning in change metrics and conflicting feedback from multiple transformation initiatives, how do you make sense of it all? Join Agile Uprising Host Andy Cleff and his guest Patrick Verdonk as they explore why traditional change frameworks alone aren't enough in today's complex organizations.  Patrick, an experienced change facilitator and author of "", shares insights from his research and practical experience on how different change models interact and influence each other. Using Nokia's transformation journey as a backdrop, they discuss how change agents can better recognize and interpret signals that indicate the need for change, avoid common pitfalls, and make sense of complexity. Whether you're an agile coach, transformation leader, or change practitioner, you'll leave with practical approaches for navigating organizational change and understanding the ripple effects of transformation initiatives. Learn how to move beyond single-framework solutions and develop a more nuanced understanding of change in complex environments. Key topics include: Moving beyond traditional change frameworks Understanding how different change models interact Practical approaches to sensemaking in organizations Recognizing and interpreting signals of change Real-world lessons from Nokia's transformation journey Contact Info: Grab the book:  Related shows:  About the Agile Uprising If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a review, a rating, or leave comments on iTunes, Stitcher or your podcasting platform of choice. It really helps others find us.  Much thanks to the artist  from  who provided us our outro music free-of-charge!  If you like what you heard,     to find more music you might enjoy! If you’d like to join the discussion and share your stories,  please jump into the fray at our  We at the Agile Uprising are committed to being totally free.  However, if you’d like to contribute and help us defray hosting and production costs we do have a .  Who knows, you might even get some surprises in the mail!