#30 - Current Events in Orch-OR: an interview with Stuart Hameroff

In episode 30 of the Quantum Consciousness series, Justin Riddle sits down with Stuart Hameroff to get an update on current events in the Orchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch-OR) Model. This interview took place on August 30th, 2022 in his home in Tucson, AZ. The interview covered four major topics. Our discussion of these topics is interleaved with my reaction, summary, and commentary on the topic of discussion. First, we discussed a recent submitted study that found coherent transmission of excitons between tubulin proteins in a microtubule. This study provides evidence for long range quantum coherence in microtubules, which is a requirement for the Orch-OR model to be grounded in microtubule function. Second, Stuart explains some unpublished pilot data that find superradiant photon emission in microtubules for multiple seconds. This finding has multiple implications. First off, this could be evidence of sustained quantum coherence in microtubule on the order of fractions of a second to multiple seconds. If true, then this implies that the slow cognitive processes of the human mind could be instantiated in slower quantum computations. In addition, this implies that coherent light emission could be a means by which multiple microtubules become entangled to form a network of quantum bits – in essence, a quantum computer. For the third topic, we discuss a recent review paper published by Stuart that explores the idea that the brain is organized in a biological hierarchy spanning multiple spatiotemporal scales. A collaborator of his, Anirban Bandyopadhyay, claims to have recorded coherent kilohertz and megahertz electrical activity from the scalp of humans in what he calls a dodecogram. This data is currently unpublished and I am personally skeptical as this would require coherent activity in this very fast frequency domain across a large spatial swath of cortex to be picked up from the scalp. At this point, I ask a series of questions to Stuart on the relationship between human cognition and microtubule function. The Orch-OR model claims that slow human cognition is a “beat” generated from much faster microtubule function. However, in my view, this beat explanation suggest that human cognition might be emergent, or epiphenomenal, which is not something that Stuart or myself are comfortable with. Finally, we discuss the recent controversy surrounding a study conducted to test the so-called “Diosi-Penrose objective reduction” model. In short another researcher proposed a similar theory to Penrose’s objective reduction model of wave function collapse. In this other theory, the collapse of the wave function was suggested to emit radiation. In this recent experimental study, they found no evidence of radiation emission upon collapse of the wave function. Therefore, the authors of this study concluded that the Diosi OR model was incorrect, but then drew the conclusion that therefore Orch-OR and Penrose OR are not supported by evidence. Stuart refutes this by explaining that Penrose OR does not propose the emission of radiation. I have included chapters in this video so that you can skip to the interview if you so desire. I hope you enjoy!