Michael Gayed on Leading and Lagging Indicators, Small Caps, Inflation, Big Tech | S07 E05
Feb 10, 2025
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Michael Gayed, Publisher of the Lead Lag Report, dives into investment strategy dynamics and market indicators. He discusses the tension between value and growth investing in a tech-centric world and critiques misleading economic narratives that affect public perception. Gayed also examines the divergence between small-cap stocks and credit spreads, reflecting on the implications of these signals for investors. With a touch of humor, he underscores the unpredictable nature of financial markets and the significance of navigating time in investing.
The dominance of passive investing strategies has raised concerns about overcrowded trades and market dislocation, particularly impacting large-cap companies.
The ongoing shift from value to growth investment strategies suggests a potential fundamental change in market dynamics driven by technology's influence.
A cultural shift towards speculative investing, fueled by social media and trading apps, reflects a growing prioritization of quick gains over long-term financial stability.
Deep dives
The Role of Passive Investing in Market Dynamics
The discussion highlights the dominance of passive investing strategies in recent years, particularly following the era of quantitative easing (QE3) initiated in 2012. This has created a scenario where assets such as the S&P 500 and NASDAQ have consistently outperformed, leading to concerns over a passive bubble in the equity markets. The argument suggests that when everyone invests passively, it results in overcrowded trades, raising the risk of market dislocation. As household allocations toward equities favor a select few large-cap companies, the implications for overall market stability become increasingly troubling.
Value Versus Growth: An Investment Perspective
The conversation delves into the stark differences between value and growth investment strategies, particularly how their performance has shifted over recent years. While historically, value has outperformed growth, recent trends have shown growth—especially in tech—dominate. This has led to a significant drawdown for value strategies since around 2010 to 2015, sparking debate over whether this trend is a fundamental change or merely a cyclical occurrence. The discussion considers various metrics, such as price-to-cash-flow ratios, to analyze the sustainability of this dynamic, implying potential recovery for value investments could be on the horizon.
The Impact of Technology on Investment Returns
The reliance on technology is identified as a major driver behind the outperformance of growth assets over value equivalents. The claim is that large-cap companies, particularly in the tech sector, have benefited disproportionately due to their market dominance. Meanwhile, smaller companies and industries lacking the same technological prowess struggle to gain traction or catch up with their larger counterparts. This raises questions about whether the current market structure, heavily influenced by a few technological giants, signals a fundamentally broken system for investment performance evaluations.
Concentration Risk and its Implications
The podcast discusses the increasingly concentrated nature of major indices, where a few large companies overshadow the vast majority of others. This concentration risk creates a scenario where significant market movements hinge on the performance of these large entities, and it raises alarms about the sustainability of the market’s structural integrity. With the rise of passive investment vehicles, there's a concern that as these large companies continue to attract investment flows, smaller and potentially more innovative companies may not get the capital they need to thrive. The resulting lack of diversification among investors' portfolios puts them at greater risk during market downturns.
Cultural Shifts Toward Financial Risk-Taking
A notable cultural shift in investing behavior is observed, characterized by a transforming mindset towards gambling and risk-taking in financial markets. The podcast discusses how the proliferation of social media and online trading apps has encouraged a speculative approach, leading to a rise in popularity for meme stocks and short squeezes. This shift reflects a broader trend where many individuals prioritize quick financial gains and dopamine hits from speculative investments rather than long-term wealth building. As a result, there are growing concerns over financial nihilism, where investors may pursue riskier financial behaviors as a coping mechanism rather than relying on traditional investment strategies.
Value: After Hours is a podcast about value investing, Fintwit, and all things finance and investment by investors Tobias Carlisle, and Jake Taylor. See our latest episodes at https://acquirersmultiple.com/podcast
We are live every Tuesday at 1.30pm E / 10.30am P.
About Jake
Jake's Twitter: https://twitter.com/farnamjake1
Jake's book: The Rebel Allocator https://amzn.to/2sgip3l
ABOUT THE PODCAST
Hi, I'm Tobias Carlisle. I launched The Acquirers Podcast to discuss the process of finding undervalued stocks, deep value investing, hedge funds, activism, buyouts, and special situations.
We uncover the tactics and strategies for finding good investments, managing risk, dealing with bad luck, and maximizing success.
SEE LATEST EPISODES
https://acquirersmultiple.com/podcast/
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Firm: https://acquirersfunds.com/
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ABOUT TOBIAS CARLISLE
Tobias Carlisle is the founder of The Acquirer’s Multiple®, and Acquirers Funds®.
He is best known as the author of the #1 new release in Amazon’s Business and Finance The Acquirer’s Multiple: How the Billionaire Contrarians of Deep Value Beat the Market, the Amazon best-sellers Deep Value: Why Activists Investors and Other Contrarians Battle for Control of Losing Corporations (2014) (https://amzn.to/2VwvAGF), Quantitative Value: A Practitioner’s Guide to Automating Intelligent Investment and Eliminating Behavioral Errors (2012) (https://amzn.to/2SDDxrN), and Concentrated Investing: Strategies of the World’s Greatest Concentrated Value Investors (2016) (https://amzn.to/2SEEjVn). He has extensive experience in investment management, business valuation, public company corporate governance, and corporate law.
Prior to founding the forerunner to Acquirers Funds in 2010, Tobias was an analyst at an activist hedge fund, general counsel of a company listed on the Australian Stock Exchange, and a corporate advisory lawyer. As a lawyer specializing in mergers and acquisitions he has advised on transactions across a variety of industries in the United States, the United Kingdom, China, Australia, Singapore, Bermuda, Papua New Guinea, New Zealand, and Guam.
He is a graduate of the University of Queensland in Australia with degrees in Law (2001) and Business (Management) (1999).
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