For this episode we go again to Australia to meet with Michelle Barker, director of the Research Software Alliance. Michelle has extensive expertise in open science, research software, digital workforce capability and digital research infrastructure. She is on the advisory committee for the US Software Sustainability Institute and recently chaired the OECD Global Science Forum expert group on digital skills for the research sector. Building and increasing skills, approaches to digital solutions and implementations is often hard. These are the kind of challenges Michelle thrives on. E.g. by using systematic approaches such as Kotter’s 8 steps for leading change. In all these endeavours it is clear that open science does and will play a critical role.