Rooting Out “It Was Right for Its Time” : Paul Reeve and Ramesus Stewart-Johnson

Dec 7, 2025

Paul Reeve, Simmons Chair of Mormon Studies and expert on race in Latter-day Saint history, and Ramses Stewart-Johnson, founder of the North Texas Genesis Group, engage in a compelling discussion on racism within the church. They challenge the notion of historical ambiguity surrounding the priesthood and temple restrictions, diving into the historical origins and personal stories that highlight ongoing impacts. The conversation emphasizes the need for openness, empathy, and active steps to confront and root out racism in the community today.

Ask episode

AI Snips

Chapters

Books

Transcript

Episode notes

INSIGHT

Three-Phase History Of The Restriction

The racial priesthood and temple restrictions unfolded in three phases: open, then segregated, then restored in 1978.
Understanding 1978 as a recovery of original universalism clarifies the church's racial history.

INSIGHT

Recent Sources Change The Narrative

New primary sources uncovered in the last decade give clear evidence about 19th-century debates that shaped the restriction.
Saying "we don't know" ignores speeches like Brigham Young's 1852 address and later transcriptions.

INSIGHT

1852 Politics Fueled Theological Rationale

The 1852 territorial legislative debates about slavery and voting directly provoked public articulation of race-based priesthood restrictions.
Political fights over enslavement bled into theological claims about Black people's status.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Get the app

Today, in light of the upcoming Come Follow Me lesson which covers Official Declaration 2, we’re honored to share a conversation with W. Paul Reeve and Ramesus Stewart-Johnson about race, the priesthood and temple restriction, and what it really means to root out racism in our church community today.

Since lifting the priesthood and temple ban in 1978, we have witnessed a great flourishing of the church, as multitudes have embraced the restored gospel in Africa and elsewhere. We can pause to celebrate this transformation occurring in the body of Christ, while contemplating how we can continue to follow the prophetic challenge to root out racism in our church, in our society and in our hearts today.. Part of this work is recognizing that myths and misinformation about our history on race persist to this day, subtle remnants of racism.

This conversation felt bold, and at times, challenging. But both Paul and Ramesus share their personal stories, insights, and convictions to help us face our past and future with clarity and spiritual courage. Paul walks us through the history—how the restriction began, how it was solidified, and how newly available primary sources push back against the idea, expressed in our Come Follow Me manual, that we “just don’t know” why the priesthood and temple restrictions were put in place. Paul argues that, until we come face-to-face with our history, we will not learn what we should from it. Ramesus helps us grapple with the lasting spiritual and emotional impact this history has had on many Black Saints—and how genuine discipleship, rooted in grace, honesty, and reconciliation, may be the key to moving forward.

Paul is the Simmons Chair of Mormon Studies at the University of Utah and author of Let’s Talk About Race and Priesthood, published by Deseret Book, as well as Religion of a Different Color, a landmark history of race and the early Church and winner of multiple book awards. Ramesus founded the North Texas Genesis Group as a support for Black Latter-day Saints, and now leads Black Lives Bless, an organization devoted to building beloved community through storytelling and truth-telling across the global Church and beyond.

We’re deeply grateful to Paul and Ramesus for being willing to share their hearts and their wisdom with us.

You can watch a video of how Paul would lead a Sunday School discussion on Official Declaration 2 on our YouTube channel, and you can find Paul's slides for that discussion here.

You can learn more from Black Lives Bless on their website, blacklivesbless.org.

And find even more from Faith Matters on this important topic in this week's newsletter on our website, faithmatters.org.