Jonathan Blake and Nils Gilman join us to discuss their recent book, Children of a Modest Star: Planetary Thinking for an Age of Crises, in which they propose a framework of "planetary thinking" to address the interconnected crises facing humanity. Drawing on historical lessons from the COVID-19 pandemic, the International Atomic Energy Agency, and the eradication of smallpox, among other examples, Blake and Gilman advocate for moving beyond traditional state-centered responses. They urge a reorientation toward systemic, planetary-scale challenges that acknowledge humanity’s deep entanglement with ecological and biogeochemical systems. In this episode, we explore why "planetarity" is an idea whose time has come, the limitations of anthropocentric institutions, the practicalities of planetary governance in a world marked by socio-political differences, and the critical role of new epistemological frameworks in addressing climate change, biodiversity loss, and global security. Jonathan Blake is the Associate Director of Programs at the Berggruen Institute, where he oversees research projects and the broader research agenda for the Planetary Program. A political scientist with a PhD from UC Berkeley, his work focuses on planetary politics, ethnic conflict, and migration, among other topics. His writing has appeared in Noema, where he serves as Associate Editor, as well as in The Atlantic, Boston Review, The Nation, Los Angeles Review of Books, and various academic journals. Nils Gilman is the Chief Operating Officer and Executive Vice President at the Berggruen Institute and also serves as Deputy Editor of Noema Magazine. He is the author of Mandarins of the Future: Modernization Theory in Cold War America (2004), Deviant Globalization: Black Market Economy in the 21st Century (2011), and Children of a Modest Star: Planetary Thinking for an Age of Crises (2024). Holding a Bachelor’s, Master’s, and Doctorate in History from UC Berkeley, Gilman is a historian and political theorist with a career spanning academia and consultancy in international security. His work has contributed to foundational insights on climate security and governance, and his writings frequently explore the limitations of current institutions in addressing planetary-scale crises, positioning him as a leading voice in reimagining governance frameworks for the Anthropocene. Jonathan tweets @jonathansblake: https://x.com/jonathansblake Nils tweets @nils_gilman: https://x.com/nils_gilman We discussed: Children of a Modest Star: Planetary Thinking for an Age of Crises (Stanford University Press, 2024): https://www.sup.org/books/politics/children-modest-star