George Saunders, known for exploring good and evil in fiction, discusses Buddhism, kindness, writing as meditation, the impact of social media, fame, and the importance of authenticity. He shares encounters with the Buddha boy in Nepal, struggles with writing in current times, and reflections on belief and storytelling.
Training the mind through meditation is a valuable investment in personal growth.
Kindness cultivates mindfulness and self-awareness, leading to deeper understanding of oneself.
Writing serves as a meditative practice, requiring presence and emotional authenticity.
Deep dives
Engagement with Buddhism and Meditation
George Saunders describes his engagement with Buddhism and meditation as a journey where he and his wife were initially introduced to meditation through the Episcopal Church. Upon observing positive changes in his wife, he found himself intrigued by the practice. He highlights the transformative power of meditation on the mind, emphasizing the ability to shift towards more positive states. Saunders reflects on the notion that the mind is malleable, drawing parallels between physical fitness and mental well-being.
Importance of Kindness and Mindfulness
Saunders discusses the significance of kindness and its impact on personal growth and interactions. He emphasizes the need to cultivate kindness as a gateway to mindfulness and self-awareness. By encouraging individuals to explore the depths of kindness, Saunders underscores the potential for increased awareness and the influence of actions on thoughts and behaviors. He delves into the idea that kindness can lead to greater mindfulness, alertness, and a deeper understanding of the self and its projections.
Writing as a Meditative Practice
Saunders views writing as a form of meditation that allows him to delve into the depths of his creativity and intuition. He describes his writing process as focused on reacting to the text with a sense of spontaneity and genuine emotional responses. Through continuous editing and refinement, Saunders aims to filter out disingenuous reactions and embrace those that resonate authentically. He parallels this writing approach to the principles of meditation, emphasizing the importance of being present and attuned to the subtle nuances of one's thoughts and emotions.
Impact of Public Image on Behavior
Recognizing the impact of one's public persona on behavior, the speaker discusses a shift in personal conduct when faced with the discrepancy between perceived anonymity and public acknowledgment. The realization that interactions would differ based on public recognition led to a conscious effort to adopt a kinder and more patient demeanor. This awareness highlighted the importance of genuine kindness and the challenge of aligning private and public behavior.
Exploring Kindness and Consciousness
Delving into the complexity of kindness, the conversation explores the nuanced nature of demonstrating compassion in various situations. The speaker reflects on the balance between genuine acts of kindness and potential misinterpretations, emphasizing the significance of presence and mindfulness in offering true benefit to others. The discussion extends to the challenges of maintaining authenticity in interpersonal interactions while navigating personal anxieties and emotional responses.
Sam Harris speaks with George Saunders about his creative process. They discuss George’s involvement with Buddhism, the importance of kindness, psychedelics, writing as a practice, the work of Raymond Carver, the problem of social media, our current political moment, the role of fame in American culture, Wendell Berry, fiction as way of exploring good and evil, The Death of Ivan Ilyich, missed opportunities in ordinary life, what it means to be a more loving person, his article “The Incredible Buddha Boy,” the prison of reputation, Tolstoy, and other topics.
George Saunders was born in Amarillo, Texas, and raised in Chicago. He is the author of twelve books, including Lincoln in the Bardo, which won the 2017 Booker Prize for the best work of fiction in English, and Tenth of December, a finalist for the National Book Award. He is also the author of A Swim in a Pond in the Rain, a book about the Russian short story. In 2013, he was named one of the world’s 100 most influential people in the world by Time magazine. He has taught in the Creative Writing Program at Syracuse University since 1997.
Learning how to train your mind is the single greatest investment you can make in life. That’s why Sam Harris created the Waking Up app. From rational mindfulness practice to lessons on some of life’s most important topics, join Sam as he demystifies the practice of meditation and explores the theory behind it.
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