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The Seen and the Unseen - hosted by Amit Varma
Ep 410: Shruti Rajagopalan Remembers the Angle of the Light
Feb 2, 2025
In this engaging conversation, economist and public intellectual Shruti Rajagopalan reflects on her multifaceted career and the importance of mentorship in academia. She highlights the need for a redefined education system that prioritizes experiential learning over traditional frameworks. Shruti also discusses the intricate relationship between education and economic development, emphasizing cultural influences. With personal anecdotes, she passionately advocates for nurturing innovation and recognizing diverse talents in India's entrepreneurial landscape.
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Quick takeaways
- Shruti Rajagopalan emphasizes transcending societal norms by mastering diverse skills to create fulfilling, multifaceted lives rather than adhering to traditional careers.
- Reflecting on her journey, Rajagopalan highlights the crucial role of mentorship in nurturing talent and encouraging exploration of personal passions.
- The discussion contrasts institutional cultures, revealing how open collaboration in academia can foster innovation over competitive environments that stifle creativity.
- Rajagopalan underscores the significance of public intellectuals in bridging academic knowledge with real-world applications, making complex ideas accessible to the public.
- Acknowledging curiosity as a driving force, Rajagopalan advocates for engagement with diverse intellectual communities to enrich learning experiences and inspire growth.
- The episode concludes with a call for creativity and risk-taking in knowledge pursuits, emphasizing the importance of remaining open to new ideas and collaborative environments.
Deep dives
The Concept of Living Multiple Lives
The episode explores the idea that individuals can transcend traditional paths in life, often dictated by societal norms, such as pursuing a single career until retirement. Advances in science and medicine may enable future generations to have significantly longer health spans, allowing them to master various skills and lead diverse lives. The speaker reflects on personal aspirations of diving deep into multiple interests, emphasizing the benefits of gaining both depth in several fields and breadth to connect them. This perspective encourages listeners to consider a life filled with varied experiences rather than conforming to prescriptive societal expectations.
Shruti Rajgopalan's Impressive Journey
The guest of the episode, Shruti Rajgopalan, recounts her exceptional journey from a student to a prominent figure in the Indian intellectual landscape. After studying law and economics, she turned down a tenure-track position to contribute to the Mercatus Center in Washington, D.C., where she built programs focused on India. She has initiated several impactful projects, such as the Ideas of India podcast and the 1991 project, which commemorates India's economic reforms. Rajgopalan’s multifaceted career serves as an inspiration for others to break traditional molds and pursue a variety of interests.
The Role of Mentorship in Rajgopalan's Success
Mentorship plays a vital role in Shruti Rajgopalan's journey, shaping her academic and professional trajectory significantly. She shares stories of how influential figures, including her professors, encouraged her to pursue her passions and engage deeply with her interests. These mentors recognized her talents and actively supported her growth by providing guidance, job opportunities, and resources. The importance of mentorship and community in fostering talent is emphasized, suggesting that aspiring individuals should seek mentors who can nurture and sharpen their skills in meaningful ways.
The Impact of Institutional Culture on Knowledge Production
The episode discusses the broader implications of institutional culture on knowledge production, particularly in academia. Rajgopalan contrasts her experience at George Mason University with that of more traditional institutions, emphasizing a culture of openness and collaboration over competition. The encouragement to engage with different ideas and support one another fosters a robust environment for intellectual exploration and innovation. Understanding how institutional structures can either hinder or promote collaboration is crucial for cultivating a thriving community of thinkers.
Diverse Pathways to Knowledge
The conversation highlights the various pathways through which individuals can acquire knowledge beyond conventional academic structures. Rajgopalan mentions the importance of actively participating in intellectual communities, such as reading blogs or engaging with public intellectuals, allowing for a broader understanding of ideas. She stresses that the ability to engage in thought-provoking discussions, whether through podcasts or articles, can enhance one's perspective and deepen understanding. Encouraging listeners to embrace diverse sources of knowledge cultivates a more holistic intellectual experience.
The Role of Public Intellectuals in Society
Shruti Rajgopalan reflects on the significance of public intellectuals and their responsibility to disseminate knowledge and ideas to a broader audience. She highlights how public intellectuals can bridge the gap between academia and real-world applications of knowledge, making complex ideas accessible. By actively engaging with the public through various media, including podcasts and articles, they can influence discourse and inspire change. This role is increasingly essential in fostering informed citizens and stimulating meaningful discussions within society.
The Importance of Curiosity
The episode emphasizes the value of curiosity as a driving force behind knowledge acquisition and intellectual growth. Rajgopalan discusses how nurturing curiosity can lead individuals to explore new ideas, perspectives, and fields of study. By surrounding oneself with curious and passionate people, the chances of learning and growing exponentially increase. This infectious passion for discovery can inspire others, creating a ripple effect of enthusiasm for learning in various communities.
Challenges of Formal Academic Structures
Rajgopalan elucidates the challenges faced by individuals within formal academic structures, including pressures to conform to certain methodologies and publishing norms. These pressures can stifle creativity and discourage researchers from exploring unconventional ideas. The conversation highlights the need for academic institutions to foster a culture that embraces diverse research approaches and encourages interdisciplinary collaboration. Acknowledging these issues can lead to a more inclusive and innovative academic environment.
Emerging Ventures and Its Impact
Emerging Ventures, spearheaded by Tyler Cowen, is introduced as an innovative approach to funding ideas and supporting talented individuals. Rajgopalan explains how the program streamlines the application process, facilitating quick access to resources and funding for aspiring innovators. This initiative aims to empower individuals, especially those from underrepresented backgrounds, by providing them with opportunities to pursue their moonshot ideas. The program highlights the potential of supporting grassroots innovation rather than relying on traditional funding avenues.
Nurturing a New Generation of Thinkers
Rajgopalan discusses her commitment to nurturing the next generation of thinkers and innovators through her work at Mercatus and Emerging Ventures. She shares her philosophy of investing in individuals with high ambition and agency, emphasizing the importance of believing in their potential. By providing mentorship and funding, she aims to foster an environment where new ideas can flourish and impactful projects can emerge. This focus on cultivating talent and fostering collaboration is vital for sustaining an innovative and vibrant intellectual community.
The Lasting Legacy of Manmohan Singh
The episode reflects on the significant legacy of Manmohan Singh and the profound impact he had on India's economic landscape. Rajgopalan discusses his role in shaping the 1991 economic reforms, which laid the foundation for India's transformation into a more market-oriented economy. The loss of such a pivotal figure is seen as marking the end of an era, with concerns about the future of similar reform-minded individuals. Commemorating his contributions encourages listeners to think critically about the direction of economic policy and the importance of visionary leadership.
The Wealth of Nations and its Relevance Today
The timeless relevance of Adam Smith's 'The Wealth of Nations' is discussed, highlighting its enduring lessons in economics. Rajgopalan encourages listeners to engage with this classic text, emphasizing its insights into production, trade, and the importance of individual agency. While some economic theories may have evolved since Smith's time, the foundational principles remain relevant for understanding modern economics. Recommending such works enriches one’s intellectual toolkit and provides valuable historical context for contemporary debates about economic policy.
The Shift to Digital Knowledge Sharing
The episode examines the shift towards digital platforms for knowledge sharing and engagement. Rajgopalan notes how online communities, including blogs and podcasts, have revolutionized the way we access and discuss ideas. This democratization of knowledge allows diverse voices and perspectives to emerge, enriching public discourse. The potential benefits of this digital transformation extend beyond academia, creating opportunities for individuals to engage with ideas and share their knowledge broadly.
The Importance of Interdisciplinary Work
Rajgopalan highlights the importance of interdisciplinary work and the collaborative nature of tackling complex societal issues. The blending of economics, politics, and the world of ideas can yield innovative solutions that more simplistic views would miss. Engaging with diverse fields allows for richer analysis and broader perspectives on contemporary problems. Encouraging interdisciplinary collaboration fosters holistic approaches to addressing challenges and uncovering new avenues for understanding.
The Role of Classics in Learning
The significance of engaging with classical works is emphasized in this episode, as they often lay the groundwork for contemporary thought. Rajgopalan notes that classical texts offer timeless insights and foundational knowledge that can inform modern discussions and debates. Reading and understanding these works enrich one’s intellectual framework, helping to analyze current events and issues. By immersing oneself in classical literature, individuals can cultivate a deeper understanding of the evolution of ideas and their impact on society.
Lessons From Personal Experience
Throughout the discussion, Rajgopalan shares personal anecdotes that illustrate the lessons she's learned in her career and life. She emphasizes the value of mentorship, curiosity, and the importance of surrounding oneself with intelligent, supportive individuals. By reflecting on her experiences and the people who have influenced her, listeners are encouraged to pursue their own paths, seek knowledge, and foster connections with others who share their passions. These narratives serve as inspiration for anyone on their journey of learning and growth.
Embracing Creativity and Risk
The episode concludes with a call to embrace creativity and take risks in pursuing knowledge and career paths. Rajgopalan expresses the idea that creativity fuels innovation and pushes boundaries, encouraging individuals to explore uncharted territories. Taking risks can lead to unforeseen opportunities and enriching experiences essential for personal and intellectual growth. This message reinforces the importance of maintaining a flexible attitude towards learning and career choices while remaining open to new possibilities.
The Future of Intellectual Collaboration
The final thoughts of the episode revolve around the future of intellectual collaboration and the ongoing need for new ideas and fresh perspectives. Rajgopalan stresses the importance of remaining connected to a vibrant community of thinkers who challenge conventional wisdom and push for progress. As knowledge production evolves, fostering environments that embrace innovation, experimentation, and diversity of thought will be crucial in shaping the intellectual landscape of the future. Together, these ideas highlight the enduring relevance of collaboration in any learning process.
She's an economist, an institution-builder, an ecosystem-nurturer and one of our finest thinkers. Shruti Rajagopalan joins Amit Varma in episode 410 of The Seen and the Unseen to talk about her life & times -- and her remarkable work. (FOR FULL LINKED SHOW NOTES, GO TO SEENUNSEEN.IN.) Also check out: 1. Shruti Rajagopalan on Twitter, Substack, Instagram, her podcast, Ideas of India and her own website. 2. Emergent Ventures India. 3. The 1991 Project. 4. Life Lessons That Are Priceless -- Episodes 400 of The Seen and the Unseen. 5. Other episodes of The Seen and the Unseen w Shruti Rajagopalan, in reverse chronological order: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. 6. The Day Ryan Started Masturbating -- Amit Varma's newsletter post explaining Shruti Rajagopalan's swimming pool analogy for social science research. 7. A Deep Dive Into Education -- Episode 54 of Everything is Everything. 8. Fixing Indian Education — Episode 185 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Karthik Muralidharan). 9. Population Is Not a Problem, but Our Greatest Strength -- Amit Varma. 10. Our Population Is Our Greatest Asset -- Episode 20 of Everything is Everything. 11. Where Has All the Education Gone? -- Lant Pritchett. 12. Lant Pritchett Is on Team Prosperity — Episode 379 of The Seen and the Unseen. 13. The Theory of Moral Sentiments — Adam Smith. 14. The Wealth of Nations — Adam Smith. 15. Commanding Heights -- Daniel Yergin. 16. Capitalism and Freedom -- Milton Friedman. 17. Free to Choose -- Milton Friedman and Rose Friedman. 18. Economics in One Lesson -- Henry Hazlitt. 19. The Road to Serfdom -- Friedrich Hayek. 20. Four Papers That Changed the World -- Episode 41 of Everything is Everything. 21. The Use of Knowledge in Society -- Friedrich Hayek. 22. Individualism and Economic Order -- Friedrich Hayek. 23. Understanding the State -- Episode 25 of Everything is Everything. 24. Richard E Wagner at Mercatus and Amazon. 25. Larry White and the First Principles of Money -- Episode 397 of The Seen and the Unseen. 26. Fixing the Knowledge Society -- Episode 24 of Everything is Everything. 27. Marginal Revolution. 28. Paul Graham's essays. 29. Commands and controls: Planning for indian industrial development, 1951–1990 -- Rakesh Mohan and Vandana Aggarwal. 30. The Reformers -- Episode 28 of Everything is Everything. 31. India: Planning for Industrialization -- Jagdish Bhagwati and Padma Desai. 32. Open Borders: The Science and Ethics of Immigration -- Bryan Caplan and Zach Weinersmith. 33. Cows on India Uncut. 34. Abdul Karim Khan on Spotify and YouTube. 35. The Surface Area of Serendipity -- Episode 39 of Everything is Everything. 36. Objects From Our Past -- Episode 77 of Everything is Everything. 37. Sriya Iyer on the Economics of Religion -- The Ideas of India Podcast. 38. Episodes of The Seen and the Unseen with Ramachandra Guha: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 39. Episodes of The Seen and the Unseen with Pratap Bhanu Mehta: 1, 2. 40. Rohit Lamba Reimagines India’s Economic Policy Emphasis -- The Ideas of India Podcast. 41. Rohit Lamba Will Never Be Bezubaan — Episode 378 of The Seen and the Unseen. 42. The Constitutional Law and Philosophy blog. 43. Cost and Choice -- James Buchanan. 44. Philip Wicksteed. 45. Pratap Bhanu Mehta on The Theory of Moral Sentiments -- The Ideas of India Podcast. 46. Conversation and Society — Episode 182 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Russ Roberts). 47. The Common Sense of Political Economy -- Philip Wicksteed. 48. Narendra Shenoy and Mr Narendra Shenoy — Episode 250 of The Seen and the Unseen. 49. Sudhir Sarnobat Works to Understand the World — Episode 350 of The Seen and the Unseen. 50. Manmohan Singh: India's Finest Talent Scout -- Shruti Rajagopalan. 51. The Importance of the 1991 Reforms — Episode 237 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Shruti Rajagopalan and Ajay Shah). 52. The Life and Times of Montek Singh Ahluwalia — Episode 285 of The Seen and the Unseen. 53. The Forgotten Greatness of PV Narasimha Rao — Episode 283 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Vinay Sitapati). 54. India’s Massive Pensions Crisis — Episode 347 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Ajay Shah & Renuka Sane). 55. The Life and Times of KP Krishnan — Episode 355 of The Seen and the Unseen. 56. Breaking Through — Isher Judge Ahluwalia. 57. Breaking Out — Padma Desai. 58. Perestroika in Perspective -- Padma Desai. 59. Shephali Bhatt Is Searching for the Incredible — Episode 391 of The Seen and the Unseen. 60. Pics from the Seen-Unseen party. 61. Pramod Varma on India’s Digital Empowerment -- Episode 50 of Brave New World. 59. Niranjan Rajadhyaksha Is the Impartial Spectator — Episode 388 of The Seen and the Unseen. 60. Our Parliament and Our Democracy — Episode 253 of The Seen and the Unseen (w MR Madhavan). 61. Episodes of The Seen and the Unseen with Pranay Kotasthane: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. 62. The Overton Window. 63. When Ideas Have Sex -- Matt Ridley. 64. The Three Languages of Politics — Arnold Kling. 65. Arnold Kling and the Four Languages of Politics -- Episode 394 of The Seen and the Unseen. 66. The Double ‘Thank You’ Moment — John Stossel. 67. Economic growth is enough and only economic growth is enough — Lant Pritchett with Addison Lewis. 68. What is Libertarianism? — Episode 117 of The Seen and the Unseen (w David Boaz). 69. What Does It Mean to Be Libertarian? — Episode 64 of The Seen and the Unseen. 70. The Libertarian Mind: A Manifesto for Freedom -- David Boaz. 71. Publish and Perish — Agnes Callard. 72. Classical Liberal Institute. 73. Shruti Rajagopalan’s YouTube talk on constitutional amendments. 74. What I, as a development economist, have been actively “for” -- Lant Pritchett. 75. Can Economics Become More Reflexive? — Vijayendra Rao. 76. Premature Imitation and India’s Flailing State — Shruti Rajagopalan & Alexander Tabarrok. 77. Elite Imitation in Public Policy — Episode 180 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Shruti Rajagopalan and Alex Tabarrok). 78. Invisible Infrastructure -- Episode 82 of Everything is Everything. 79. The Sundara Kanda. 80. Devdutt Pattanaik and the Stories That Shape Us -- Episode 404 of The Seen and the Unseen. 81. Y Combinator. 82. Space Fields. 83. Apoorwa Masuk, Onkar Singh Batra, Naman Pushp, Angad Daryani, Deepak VS and Srijon Sarkar. 84. Deepak VS and the Man Behind His Face — Episode 373 of The Seen and the Unseen. 85. You've Got To Hide Your Love Away -- The Beatles. 86. Caste, Capitalism and Chandra Bhan Prasad — Episode 296 of The Seen and the Unseen. 87. Data For India -- Rukmini S's startup. 88. Whole Numbers And Half Truths — Rukmini S. 89. The Moving Curve — Rukmini S’s Covid podcast, also on all podcast apps. 90. The Importance of Data Journalism — Episode 196 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Rukmini S). 91. Rukmini Sees India’s Multitudes — Episode 261 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Rukmini S). 92. Prosperiti. 93. This Be The Verse — Philip Larkin. 94. The Dilemma of an Indian Liberal -- Gurcharan Das. 95. Zakir: 1951-2024 -- Shruti Rajagopalan. 96. Dazzling Blue -- Paul Simon, featuring Karaikudi R Mani. 97. John Coltrane, Shakti, Zakir Hussain, Ali Akbar Khan, Pannalal Ghosh, Nikhil Banerjee, Vilayat Khan, Bismillah Khan, Ravi Shankar, Bhimsen Joshi, Bade Ghulam Ali Khan, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, Esperanza Spalding, MS Subbulakshmi, Lalgudi Jayaraman, TN Krishnan, Sanjay Subrahmanyan, Ranjani-Gayatri and TM Krishna on Spotify. 98. James Buchanan, Gordon Tullock, Israel Kirzner, Mario Rizzo, Vernon Smith, Thomas Schelling and Ronald Coase. 99. The Calculus of Consent -- James Buchanan and Gordon Tullock. 100. Tim Harford and Martin Wolf. 101. The Shawshank Redemption -- Frank Darabont. 102. The Marriage of Figaro in The Shawshank Redemption. 103. An Equal Music -- Vikram Seth. 104. Beethoven: Symphony No. 7 - Zubin Mehta and the Belgrade Philharmonic. 105. Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky's violin concertos. 106. Animal Farm -- George Orwell. 107. Down and Out in Paris and London -- George Orwell. 108. Gulliver's Travels -- Jonathan Swift. 109. Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass -- Lewis Carroll. 110. One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich -- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. 111. The Gulag Archipelago -- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. 112. Khosla Ka Ghosla -- Dibakar Banerjee. 113. Mr India -- Shekhar Kapur. 114. Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi -- Satyen Bose. 114. Finding Nemo -- Andrew Stanton. 115. Tom and Jerry and Bugs Bunny. 116. Michael Madana Kama Rajan -- Singeetam Srinivasa Rao. 117. The Music Box, with Laurel and Hardy. 118. The Disciple -- Chaitanya Tamhane. 119. Court -- Chaitanya Tamhane. 120. Dwarkesh Patel on YouTube. Amit Varma and Ajay Shah have launched a new course called Life Lessons, which aims to be a launchpad towards learning essential life skills all of you need. For more details, and to sign up, click here. Amit and Ajay also bring out a weekly YouTube show, Everything is Everything. Have you watched it yet? You must! And have you read Amit’s newsletter? Subscribe right away to The India Uncut Newsletter! It’s free! Also check out Amit’s online course, The Art of Clear Writing. Episode art: ‘Learn' by Simahina.
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