Why Ceremony Matters: A Sacred Space or Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll?

In this special episode of Modern Enlightenment, Austin Mao of Ceremonia sits down with Matias De Stefano and Robert Edward Grant for a thought-provoking discussion on the profound impact of psychedelics when used in a ceremonial setting.

Recorded in Antarctica, this conversation explores how psychedelics—when approached with intention, structure, and reverence—can serve as powerful tools for psychological healing, spiritual awakening, and expanded consciousness. The guests share their personal journeys with plant medicines, reflecting on the difference between casual use and the depth of transformation that comes from a sacred container.

Matias recounts his first profound connection with mushrooms, where he received a message from the “neurons of the Earth,” while Robert shares how psilocybin expanded his mind and deepened his spiritual insights. Austin reflects on how ayahuasca unlocked forgotten childhood memories and catalyzed his path toward healing and service.

Beyond personal experiences, the conversation also examines the unique psychological and energetic properties of different psychedelics, including:
 

• Psilocybin mushrooms – Enhancing connectivity, healing emotions, and expanding creative awareness
• Ayahuasca (DMT) – A powerful teacher that reveals hidden trauma and deep inner truths
•  Iboga – A relentless guide forcing confrontation with repressed thoughts and behaviors
• Bufo (5-MeO-DMT) – The ultimate ego-dissolution experience, merging the self with the infinite
   Ketamine – A dissociative state that can provide relief from trauma but lacks the depth of traditional plant medicines

The discussion also touches on the dangers of ungrounded facilitation, the risk of psychotic breaks in poorly held spaces, and the importance of safety, integration, and responsible use. The guests explore how different substances serve different roles—some aiding trauma healing, others facilitating spiritual expansion—and why approaching them in a ceremonial, intentional manner is essential for their true potential to be realized.

Join us for this fascinating exploration of psychedelics as sacred tools for transformation and learn why ceremony is the key to unlocking their deepest power.

Listen now and journey with us into the heart of psychedelic healing.

Key Timestamps:

[00:00:00] Introduction.

[00:02:58] Initial experience with psychedelics and its impact.

[00:08:36] Psilocybin as the more powerful gateway.

[00:12:30] The planet’s neural link.

[00:13:51] Ayahuasca and Acacia.

[00:16:31] What is the best psychedelic?

[00:18:18] Ketamine’s value and the blowbacks.

[00:28:10] Ketamine vs. other psychedelics.

[00:31:02] Ceremony – and why it’s important.

[00:33:34] Leaky containers and psychedelics.

[00:34:56] What are you doing psychedelics for?

[00:37:22] Facilitators are crucial.

[00:38:15] Iboga and bufo.

Memorable Quotes:

"I think it's got to be truly grounded with the intention because otherwise it's just drug, sex and rock'n'roll." [00:31:35] – Sir Robert Edward Grant

"It's actually a tool that can shift mind, that can shift body, that can transform everything." [00:13:41] – Matías De Stefano

Connect with Sir Robert Edward Grant:

Website: https://robertedwardgrant.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robertedwardgrant/ 

Connect with Matías De Stefano:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/matiasgustavodestefano/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yosoy.network

Connect with Modern Enlightenment:

Website: https://www.ceremoniacircle.org/podcast/modern-enlightenment

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ceremoniacircle

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ceremoniacircle

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ceremoniacircle

Apply to be a guest on the show: https://airtable.com/appiLHnhKJH01qCNe/pageThPHAjQNNaJNY/form

Produced by Evolved Podcasting: www.evolvedpodcasting.com