Factually! with Adam Conover

Trump and Elon Don't Know Who They're Firing - with Max Stier

Mar 12, 2025

Max Stier, CEO of the Partnership for Public Service, dives into the alarming wave of federal layoffs initiated by figures like Elon Musk and Donald Trump. He highlights how these job cuts threaten the foundations of democracy and civil service. Stier emphasizes the dedication of federal employees and the risks of politicizing their roles. He discusses the importance of nonpartisan governance and urges for a stronger public engagement to preserve accountability and foster trust in government, stressing that what affects these workers ultimately impacts all Americans.

01:08:51

Episode guests

Max Stier

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Episode notes

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Quick takeaways

The recent mass layoffs of federal workers, primarily targeting recently hired employees, threaten the effectiveness and integrity of the federal government.

Federal employees, including veterans, play crucial roles in ensuring public safety and national security, making their contributions vital to society.

The push towards a privatized management approach in government undermines accountability and morale, leading to disrupted services and increased public distress.

Deep dives

Destructive Layoffs in the Federal Workforce

Recent actions by the Trump administration have led to substantial layoffs among federal employees, focusing primarily on those deemed easiest to dismiss, such as probationary workers. This strategy has not only targeted recently hired individuals but also those who have recently gained promotions. The overarching goal appears to be a concerted effort to weaken the federal government by removing employees who play crucial roles in maintaining public safety and service. Such widespread dismissals raise significant concerns about the damage inflicted on the effectiveness and integrity of the federal workforce.

Intro

6min

Guardians of Democracy: Challenges in Governance

14min

The Risks of Politicizing Civil Service Protections

6min

The Fragile Foundation of Civil Service

7min

Distrust and Accountability in Government

20min

The Resilience of Federal Employees Amid Challenges

4min

The Essence of Public Service

12min

Federal Funding and Business Ethics

5min

Reconnecting Citizens and Government

5min

10.

Reflections on Meaningful Contributions and Community Support

2min

Elon Musk and Donald Trump are actively trying to burn down the federal government. Federal workers are being fired en masse, with no regard for their roles or the devastating impact their removal will have on everyday Americans. As the country’s largest employer, the federal government’s gutting won’t just affect those losing their jobs—it will ripple outward, impacting millions of families and, ultimately, all Americans. Today, Adam is joined by Max Stier, CEO and president of the Partnership for Public Service, to break down who has been affected, the extent of the damage, and what it would take to rebuild the ruins of our federal government.

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