Wow, this discussion is a creative caravanserai of ideas and ‘ologies. Our guest is the indomitable Mark Smalley, thinker, writer and builder of bridges across the IT industry. We move ineluctably from potty-training for cows, to service science and Buddhist sagacity – yes that sentence is true…! Mark has been involved in bringing together a whole new set of worlds of thinking as the lead on the High Velocity IT ITIL 4 book – the least ITIL-like ITIL book ever…we debate the taxonomy of services, products goods and the meaning of life, then enjoy a nice cup of tea at the bar…