Behind the News: Gaza, Ukraine, and the US w/ Anatol Lieven
Nov 13, 2023
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Anatol Lieven, an expert on wars in Gaza and Ukraine, discusses the conflicts and the diminishing power of the US. The podcast also explores class differences in economic policy preferences and the rise of the DLC in the Democratic Party. It highlights the impact of education on analysis and the changing nature of Democratic politicians.
The conflicts in Ukraine and Gaza are separate wars with different motivations and alliances, and the attempt to link them by the Biden administration is a fundamental mistake.
The intense and unwavering support of the US for Israel is largely driven by domestic politics, tradition, subservience to the US, and concerns about mass migration and hostility towards Islam, rather than strategic reasons.
Deep dives
The Disconnect Between Ukraine and Gaza
The podcast episode discusses the disconnect between the conflicts in Ukraine and Gaza. The speaker emphasizes that these are two separate wars with different reasons, and there is no alliance between Russia and Hamas. The Biden administration's attempt to link these two conflicts is seen as a fundamental mistake for domestic political reasons, without considering the different motivations and alliances involved. The United States' inability to control its clients and the lack of pressure on Israel to change its actions in Gaza are highlighted. The danger of escalating tensions and the need for the US to have a say in the resolution of these conflicts are also mentioned.
The Reason Behind US Support for Israel
The podcast explores the question of why the US has such intense and unwavering support for Israel. The speaker asserts that there is no strategic reason for this support, but rather it is driven by aspects of American domestic politics and tradition. The attachment of certain sections of the Protestant fundamentalist tradition in America to Israel is seen as a significant factor. The speaker also highlights the influence of subservience to the United States and concerns about mass migration and hostility towards Islam. However, the speaker concludes that the strategic ally narrative is largely unfounded, as Israel's cooperation with the US on counterterrorism is seen as potentially generating support for terrorism in the Muslim world.
The Goals and Motives of Israel's Assault on Gaza
The podcast delves into the goals and motives of Israel's assault on Gaza. Revenge is identified as a possible motivation for the Israeli government, as well as a desire to punish the population of Gaza in order to deter further terrorist attacks. The speaker notes that there have been voices within the extreme right in Israel that have even advocated for ethnic cleansing and relocating the population of Gaza into Egypt, which could lead to direct conflict with the United States due to its alliance with Egypt. The complex dynamics of the Israeli government, its leadership, and the potential risks of escalating the conflict are discussed, with the speaker highlighting the need for serious American pressure to prevent further destabilization in the region.
The Shift from Redistribution to Predistribution
The podcast episode shifts focus to economic policy and the preferences of working-class voters. The speaker introduces a National Bureau of Economic Research paper that examines the shift from redistributionist policies like progressive taxes and social benefits to predistributionist policies like protectionism and higher minimum wages. The paper highlights the preference of less educated voters for policies that aim to shape the economy before taxes and transfers, allowing for a more egalitarian earnings distribution. The speaker emphasizes the historical and political efficacy of predistributionist ideas and notes that the Democratic Party's shift towards the new Democrat ideology, represented by the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), has played a role in this changing dynamic. However, the changing nature of the party's base and the rise of Ivy League-educated politicians are also discussed.
Anatol Lieven discusses the wars in Gaza and Ukraine and the global standing of United States power. Ilyana Kuziemko and Suresh Naidu, co-authors of a recent paper on "economic policy and partisan realignment" in the US, talk about class differences in economic policy preferences ("predistributionist" vs. redistributionist).
Behind the News, hosted by Doug Henwood, covers the worlds of economics and politics and their complex interactions, from the local to the global. Find the archive online.
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