Ep. 230 - How to Think About Consciousness in Non-Linguistic Animals w/Dr. Carlos Montemayor
May 10, 2023
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Dr. Carlos Montemayor, an authority on the consciousness of non-linguistic human animals, dives deep into animal cognition. He explores whether animals, like bees and corvids, perceive time and make complex navigational decisions. The discussion even touches on canine intelligence and emotional bonds. Montemayor challenges the distinction between consciousness and intelligence, raising ethical questions about our treatment of conscious beings. The conversation highlights the diverse experiences of animals, emphasizing the need for a more profound understanding of their consciousness.
Dr. Carlos Montemayor emphasizes that non-linguistic animals, such as bees and corvids, demonstrate complex cognitive behaviors that suggest varying degrees of consciousness.
The podcast highlights the ethical implications of recognizing consciousness in animals versus AI, advocating for a moral community that includes conscious beings capable of suffering.
Deep dives
Exploring Animal Consciousness
The podcast delves into the consciousness of non-linguistic animals, questioning whether they possess knowledge, plan for the future, or understand their actions. Dr. Carlos Montemayor highlights that even simpler organisms like bees demonstrate complex behaviors, such as navigating forests and performing waggle dances to communicate food sources, which suggests a level of cognitive awareness. His research indicates that animals like corvids and scrub jays exhibit advanced memory capabilities, allowing them to remember food locations and differentiate between types of food based on their decay rates. These examples challenge the notion of animals merely acting as automatons, emphasizing the potential for varying degrees of consciousness across species.
Time Perception in Animals
Dr. Montemayor discusses the intricate ways animals perceive time and how this capability relates to their navigation and survival. He posits that circadian rhythms and other temporal mechanisms play a critical role in how different species, including insects and birds, bind experiences to their environment over time. For instance, corvids not only recall where they hid their food but also when it was hidden, demonstrating an ability to mentally travel through time. This capacity for remembering past actions and anticipating future needs suggests that many animals possess a complex understanding of time that extends beyond simple survival instincts.
The Distinction Between Intelligence and Phenomenal Consciousness
The conversation reflects on the philosophical distinction between intelligence and consciousness within the animal kingdom, suggesting that the two do not necessarily overlap. Dr. Montemayor argues that while animals like dogs may exhibit intelligent behaviors, their level of self-awareness and consciousness might differ from human experiences. He emphasizes that emotional intelligence is significant in understanding animal behavior, as dogs can react to human emotions and social cues despite lacking sophisticated language to articulate their thoughts. This points to the nuanced ways in which animals interact with their environments and social structures, raising questions about the nature of their internal experiences.
Moral Considerations and Animal Rights
The discussion touches upon the moral implications of acknowledging consciousness in animals, especially in light of advancements in artificial intelligence. Dr. Montemayor leads the conversation towards the perceived disparity in how society grants rights and moral status to AI while often overlooking the consciousness in many animals. He suggests that the moral community should include conscious animals, as their capacity to suffer demands ethical consideration. By contrasting this with societal attitudes towards protecting AI, he highlights a fundamental inconsistency in our approach to AI rights versus animal welfare, advocating for a broader recognition of consciousness in living beings.
In episode 230 of the Parker's Pensées Podcast, I'm joined by Dr. Carlos Montemayor to discuss his work on non-linguistic human animals which he presented at Mind Fest 2023.
Check out more of Carlos's work, including his open access book, here: https://sites.google.com/site/carlosmontemayorphilosophysfsu/
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3:27 - Do animals perceive time?
11:17 - How important is language for animal cognition and knowledge?
17:50 - Do dogs have beliefs?
19:59 - Animal Attention
23:46 - How important is phenomenal consciousness for rights?
27:28 - Can Animals Suffer?
30:22 - Epistemic Needs vs. Phenomenal Needs
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