Ezra Klein | The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday Special Ep. 85
Mar 15, 2020
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Ezra Klein, founder and editor-at-large of Vox.com and host of "The Ezra Klein Show," explores pressing issues like racism, identity politics, and free speech. He discusses the leftward shift of the Democrat Party and the growing polarization in American society. The conversation critiques how identity politics can skew policy assessments and the complexities of historical injustices. Klein emphasizes the importance of engaged dialogue amidst political divides to foster understanding and progress.
Ezra Klein argues that engaging in political dialogue is often exaggeratedly portrayed as dangerous, suggesting moderated discussions can transcend ideological divides.
Klein emphasizes the distinction between liberalism and leftism, advocating for a more equitable society while recognizing the complexities of personal life chances.
Vox.com aims to reflect varied political viewpoints, resisting a singular ideological identity to foster a dynamic exchange of ideas amidst liberal perspectives.
Klein highlights the exacerbation of polarization in modern politics, which intertwines identity layers with partisan affiliations, complicating conflict resolution and understanding.
Deep dives
Bravery in Conversational Politics
The notion of bravery in engaging in political dialogue today is often overstated, according to Ezra Klein. He suggests that the perceived danger of such conversations has been amplified by a desire to portray the political landscape as more polarized than it truly is. Klein emphasizes that individuals can still engage in discussions without fearing immediate career repercussions, opposing the belief that opposing viewpoints are exceedingly unreasonable. This perspective highlights the potential for moderated discussions that transcend extreme ideological divides.
Foundations of Vox.com
Ezra Klein co-founded Vox.com in collaboration with Vox Media, contributing to its rise as a major force in explanatory journalism. With influences across various cultural platforms, Vox.com presents itself as a unique entity in the media landscape, though it is often perceived by conservatives as leaning politically left. Klein underlines that while Vox.com reflects a liberal viewpoint, his goal is to ensure the publication does not confine itself to a singular ideological identity. This fluidity in perspective allows for nuanced discussions that evolve with changing political climates.
Defining Liberalism
Klein articulates a distinction between liberalism and leftism, framing liberalism as a philosophy rooted in equality while also maintaining a degree of faith in government capabilities. He suggests that liberalism endorses efforts to create a more equitable society, while recognizing the complexities of personal life chances shaped by external factors. By laying out his interpretation of liberalism, Klein addresses the ongoing challenges and differing views within the political landscape. As perspectives evolve, the definition and application of liberalism remain a central topic in contemporary dialogue.
Vox's Editorial Stance
Klein acknowledges that while Vox is often classified as left-leaning, he refrains from strictly defining it as a liberal publication to allow for broader discussion. He indicates that Vox aims to reflect varied political viewpoints and resist conforming to a single ideological line, despite the inherent liberal perspectives of its co-founders. Klein's intent is to create an environment within Vox where diverse opinions can coexist and flourish. This approach facilitates a more dynamic exchange of ideas rather than pigeonholing the publication into a rigid ideology.
Identity Politics and Its Implications
The conversation around identity politics remains contentious, with Klein defending the notion that identity should be acknowledged in political discourse while emphasizing it is often weaponized. He expresses concern that identity is frequently assigned unidirectional implications, limiting vital conversations. Klein argues for a more nuanced understanding where different experiences, including those rooted in race, are recognized without reducing the discourse to mere identity politics. This perspective advocates for engaging with complex socio-political narratives to promote understanding and meaningful dialogue.
Polarization in American Politics
Klein discusses how the current era reflects heightened polarization distinct from historical political fractures. He highlights that while significant ideological divides have existed, today's polarization is exacerbated by identity layers that intersect with partisan affiliations. The shift from bipartisan debate to entrenched party lines creates significant hurdles to resolving conflicts and understanding differing perspectives. Klein believes this situation necessitates an examination of how both parties engage with identity politics, arguing this aspect shapes modern political encounters.
The Role of Government and Majoritarianism
Klein argues that a functioning political system must embrace the idea of governing with a majority, ensuring that citizens have tangible outcomes from their political participation. He suggests that frustrations mount when governments fail to deliver on promises, as unresolved issues lead to public disillusionment. The implications of a dysfunctional system result in a populace that questions the effectiveness of governance, eroding trust in political institutions. This cycle of dissatisfaction further entrenches polarization, highlighting the need for effective government engagement.
Ezra Klein — founder and editor-at-large of Vox.com, host of "The Ezra Klein Show" podcast, and author of "Why We're Polarized" — joins Ben to discuss racism, equality, identity politics, free speech, the Democrat Party moving further left, the polarization in America, and much more.
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