Thanks to MAINGEAR for speeding up everything for us. Check out the VYBE line that’s making up the core of Matt’s new studio -- and use code CREATE for a free additional year of warranty on desktops: https://maingear.com/ref/656/

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This week, Kevin dives DEEP into storytelling, product creation, and creative independence. We kick things off with a deceptively simple question: can moral clarity actually make a story more compelling? Kevin critiques the rise of moral relativism, and the monumental challenge of making villains sympathetic without erasing their menace. From Thanos to Hannibal Lecter, he explores why clear stakes and unapologetic villainy often leave the strongest impressions.

After that, we get a peek behind the curtain on the progress of his book Sleep Warrior, and Kevin does some careful reflection reflecting on the balance between planning and improvisation. Drawing on Brandon Sanderson’s free novel-writing course, we talk about the differences between outlining and discovery writing, and the shocking strength of writing for yourself rather than chasing trends.

Kevin also opens up about his work with Curiosity Box and Ink Factory. He walks us through the journey from concept to product, highlighting some inventive and popular designs like the “assassin’s water bottle.” From engineering to packaging to shipping, he reveals the hidden complexities of bringing original ideas to life, and why revenue diversification is increasingly vital for today’s creators.

Finally, Kevin touches on creation versus imitation, giving fans tangible value, and how thoughtful product design can support the artists we love.

Big thanks to listeners for joining us—we’ll see you next week, and stay tuned for Matt’s return!

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CREDITS:

Hosts: Kevin Lieber and Matt Tabor

Executive Producer: Ben Webster

Editor: Spencer Vann

"Created in the Unknown" theme by Basswaite: https://linktr.ee/Basswaite

Theme by Mega Drive → http://megadrivemusic.com

Opening Animation: Kidmograph

City Animation: Eric Langlay

"The Create Unknown" is produced by Unknown Media.

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Ep 237: A Conversation with Aaron Bruno (AWOLNATION, The Barbarians of California)