A Jewish American living in Israel provides historical context and discusses their love for Israel; Reflections on 9-11, volunteering, and war; Israel's failure to secure peace and criticism of their approach; challenges of urban warfare in Gaza; the importance of navigating the fog of war; speculations on a hospital explosion; book recommendations on the Israel-Palestine conflict; discussing the use of 'genocide' and Hamas' belief on Jewish settlement in Israel.
The hosts discuss the challenges of urban warfare in Gaza and question the Israeli government's military aims and ethics.
The tense relationship between Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the American foreign policy establishment is highlighted, emphasizing the enmity and mutual distrust.
The hosts recommend several books to gain a deeper understanding of the Middle East conflict and underscore the importance of historical and geopolitical context.
Deep dives
Overview of the Conflict and Personal Perspectives
In this podcast episode, the hosts engage in a conversation about the ongoing conflict between Israel and Gaza. One host, living in Israel and deeply invested in his Jewishness and Americanness, shares his perspective as a Jewish American living in Israel. He discusses his love for the country, the history of Israel's creation, and his belief in war as a necessary means to achieve peace. The other host, who was a volunteer at Ground Zero after 9/11 and later served in Iraq, draws parallels between the experience of war and the current situation in Israel. He raises concerns about the Israeli government's rhetoric, competence, and ethical considerations.
Urban Warfare and Strategic Considerations
The hosts discuss the challenges of urban warfare in Gaza compared to their experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan. They highlight the dense urban environment in Gaza, the potential involvement of civilians, and the entrenched defensive capabilities of Hamas. They touch on the effectiveness of tunnels, the use of commercial drones as weapons, and the difficulty of conducting targeted operations. They also raise questions about the Israeli government's military aims, foresight, and ethics, expressing doubts about the current strategic approach and emphasizing the need for regaining the strategic initiative against Iran.
Netanyahu's Relationship with the American Foreign Policy Establishment
The hosts delve into the tense relationship between Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the American foreign policy establishment. They highlight the enmity and mutual distrust between the Obama administration and Netanyahu's government, stemming from policy differences, including the US alliance with Iran. They discuss the potential implications of Netanyahu's rhetoric and the concern it raises among American policymakers. They also reference the internal political dynamics in Israel, including protests against Netanyahu's government and the division between Zionists and Arabists within the British Empire during the formation of modern Middle East states.
Book Recommendations for Understanding the Conflict
The hosts offer book recommendations for gaining a deeper understanding of the Middle East conflict. They suggest reading 'A Peace to End All Peace' by David Fromkin to explore the history and consequences of decisions made during World War I. They also recommend 'The Siege' by Conor Cruise O'Brien, 'Like Dreamers' by Yossi Klein Halevi, and 'Israel's Declaration of Independence' by Neil Rogachevsky for insights into the modern contours of the conflict, the psychological impact of occupation, and the challenges faced by Israel after the Six-Day War and the withdrawal from Gaza. They underscore the importance of understanding the historical and geopolitical context to make sense of the ongoing conflict.
Hamas's Tactics and Goals
Hamas's recent attack demonstrated a level of savagery and brutality, which can be seen as an expression of their culture. They deliberately targeted civilians and carried out ritual desecrations, showing a blatant disregard for human life. While their desire to kill as many people as possible is not new, the magnitude of their recent attack was startling. It is also important to note that this attack was not an isolated incident but rather the culmination of a long buildup. Overall, Hamas's tactics reflect a nihilistic and extremist ideology.
The Left's Reaction to the Conflict
The recent conflict has exposed a concerning lack of empathy and a dehumanization of Israeli victims among some on the political left. The indifference or even support for attacks on Israelis, whether Jewish or not, is seen as a manifestation of a political cult that has developed over the past decade. The rise of dehumanizing rhetoric, maximalist decolonial ideologies, and a desire to undermine and de-legitimize Israel have further exacerbated the polarization. The left's reaction, far from being surprising, aligns with the ideological framework that has been cultivated in recent years.
