“In El Salvador, I dropped $5 out of my pocket at the border, and some guy came running up to me. At the beginning of the trip I would have been surprised by that. But by that point I would have been surprised if it didn’t happen.” —Matt Savino

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt talk about how the first version of his travel book was way too long, and what he ended up editing out (6:00); the origins of Matt’s Central America road trip, why he ended up turning it into a book, and how he ended up taking Rolf’s Paris class (12:00); how Matt’s “Spreadsheet of Pain” helped him edit his book down to manageable size, and how historical research helped his narrative (17:00); how he wrote about a road trip that didn’t actually reach its objective, and how he tried to model his narrative on Bill Bryson’s writing (26:00); how Matt used a hybrid publisher to get his travel book into the world in two years (31:00); the challenges, idiosyncrasies, and creative joys that come with creating a hybrid published book (39:00); how AI bots determined that Matt had “plagiarized” what turned out to be his own book (54:00); and Matt’s advice for people interested in hybrid publishing (60:30).

Matt Savino (@ushuaia_or_bust) is the author of Land Without a Continent: A Road Trip through Mexico and Central America. He can be contacted via his website.

Notable Links:

• Paris travel memoir writing workshop (Rolf’s writing classes)
• Matt’s Spreadsheet of Pain (note explainer tab at the bottom)
• No Baggage Challenge (Rolf’s 2010 blog and video series)
• Justin’s elephant-poop cold remedy (2010 video)
• Walking every single street in NYC (Deviate episode)
• The Sweet Superstition of Rooting for the Royals, by Rolf Potts (essay)
• Van Life Before #VanLife (Deviate episode)
• Developmental editing (pre-publication writing support)
• Hybrid publishing (assisted self-publishing)
• Jew (comedy special by Ari Shaffir)
• Perhapsing (nonfiction narrative strategy)
• Illumify Media (hybrid publisher)
• Cliff Clavin (fictional character on Cheers)
• IngramSpark (self-publishing book company)
• Kindle Direct Publishing (e-book publishing platform)

Authors, books, and agents mentioned:

• Bill Bryson (author)
• Julie Pesano (travel writer and teacher)
• Cole Kazdin (writer and writing coach)
• Who Killed the Bishop? by Francisco Goldman (book)
• Blood of Brothers, by Stephen Kinzer (book)
• Turning the Tide, by Noam Chomsky (book)
• A Walk in the Woods, by Bill Bryson (book)
• Chloe Cooper Jones (author)
• Eddy L. Harris (travel author)
• James Faccinto (book publicist and former Paris student)
• April Eberhardt (literary agent and publishing consultant)
• AWOL on the Appalachian Trail, by David Miller (book)
• Pati Jinich (chef, author, and TV host)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.