#138 - Ex-CIA Spy Explains How the United States Turned Him Into a Dissident | John Kiriakou
May 23, 2022
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Former CIA officer John Kiriakou discusses his journey from spy to dissident, encounters with Oliver Stone, government secrecy, and whistleblowing challenges. He shares stories of capturing Abu Zabaydah and the wrongful detention of Mahar Arar. The podcast also covers wrongful convictions, prison survival, life after release, flaws in the criminal justice system, Panquake, and the media landscape in Russia and the US.
The importance of transparency and holding the government accountable for its actions through whistleblowing.
Insights into the intricate workings and collaborations involved in counterterrorism operations.
The ethical dilemmas and legal issues surrounding counterterrorism efforts, emphasizing the need for adherence to legal frameworks and constitutional protections.
The challenges faced by the speaker upon release from prison, highlighting flaws in the criminal justice system and the need for reform.
Deep dives
Capturing Abu Zabaydah: The Challenging Raid
The CIA and FBI collaborate on a mission to capture Abu Zabaydah, the number three in al Qaeda, in Pakistan. The team faces various challenges, including the difficulty of finding him in a country the size of Texas with 150 million people. They employ methods like tracking his cell phone and scouting multiple locations, but face setbacks. Eventually, they narrow down their options to 14 sites and successfully execute a synchronized raid on all of them. Despite encountering chaos and shootings, the mission results in significant captures and provides crucial intelligence.
The Dilemmas of Whistleblowing and Government Accountability
The podcast episode delves into the risks and challenges of whistleblowing and holding the government accountable for its actions. The speaker, a former CIA spy, shares personal experiences of blowing the whistle on the CIA's torture program and facing prosecution. He emphasizes the importance of transparency, the right to know what the government is doing, and the need for adherence to the law. The discussion also touches upon the controversial figures of Julian Assange and Edward Snowden, highlighting the difficulties they faced in exposing government surveillance and the divided opinions regarding the right way to blow the whistle.
The Intelligence Workings and Collaborations in Counterterrorism Operations
The podcast reveals insights into the intricate workings and collaborations involved in counterterrorism operations. The speaker shares experiences from his time in the CIA and the process of analyzing intelligence to identify al Qaeda targets. The episode highlights the challenges of coordinating with Pakistani intelligence and agencies like the FBI, acknowledging the inherent tensions and competition between organizations. Additionally, it explores the international nature of intelligence work, with discussions on Western intelligence services and their cooperation on capturing high-value targets.
The Ethical Dilemmas and Legal Issues Surrounding Counterterrorism
The podcast episode delves into the ethical dilemmas and legal issues surrounding counterterrorism efforts. The speaker discusses the CIA's decision to establish a torture program and the internal objections raised by individuals like himself. He emphasizes the illegality of torture under both U.S. law and international conventions. The episode also focuses on the blurred lines between intelligence operations and legal accountability, highlighting the tension between protecting national security and upholding constitutional rights. The speaker's experiences shed light on the importance of adherence to legal frameworks, transparency, and the need to safeguard constitutional protections.
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Life in Prison and Connections with Dangerous Individuals
The podcast episode explores the experiences of the speaker while in prison, highlighting encounters with intimidating inmates, including members of Mexican drug cartels and the boss of the Gambino crime family. Despite initial tensions and challenges, the speaker found himself gaining acceptance and forming unexpected alliances, such as with a member of the Nation of Islam. The narrative sheds light on the intricacies and dynamics of prison life, emphasizing themes of honor, respect, and unexpected alliances.
Challenges and Restrictions After Prison
The podcast delves into the difficulties faced by the speaker upon release from prison. The speaker discusses the challenges of home confinement and the stringent restrictions imposed, such as being unable to leave the house and constantly being monitored. The speaker also shares personal experiences of the obstacles faced in reintegrating into society, including difficulties in finding employment and the denial of opportunities due to past convictions. The conversation highlights the flaws of the criminal justice system and the need for prison reform.
John Kiriakou is a former CIA counterterrorism officer who was sentenced to 2 years in federal prison for exposing the CIA's enhanced interrogation program. Kiriakou was the first former CIA officer to confirm that the agency waterboarded detainees and label waterboarding as torture. Follow John: https://twitter.com/JohnKiriakou Follow Danny https://www.instagram.com/jonesdanny https://twitter.com/jonesdanny
