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91: Dave Kellogg - Organizational design: Signs of Health vs. Conflict

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Jan 20, 2025

Guest

Dave Kellogg

Dave Kellogg, an experienced CEO and CMO in the enterprise software realm, shares his wisdom on organizational design and scaling. He delves into the signs of organizational health versus conflict, emphasizing that high internal conflict reflects poor health. Kellogg stresses that growth should be a shared responsibility and highlights the crucial role of C-level executives as translators between departments. He also discusses the importance of internal curiosity and warns against the dangers of scaling too quickly without solid foundations.

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ADVICE

Two Jobs of a C-Level Executive

C-level executives have two jobs: managing their department and contributing to the whole company.
Focus on understanding other departments and collaborating with peers.

insights

INSIGHT

Collective Growth Ownership

Growth is a company-wide responsibility, not just one department's.
All departments are essential and contribute to overall success.

insights

INSIGHT

Signs of Organizational Dysfunction

Internal conflict and role ambiguity indicate poor organizational health.
Healthy conflict is good, but excessive backbiting and politics are detrimental.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Understanding Directness and Humor in Professional Settings

01:59 • 2min

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Navigating Organizational Growth

04:01 • 17min

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Navigating C-Level Dynamics

21:11 • 10min

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The Power of Care in Organizational Productivity

31:26 • 3min

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Principles of Effective Organizational Design

33:57 • 9min

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Navigating Growth: Challenges in Scaling Organizations

43:26 • 18min

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New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World

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Scaling Startups from 10 to 10,000 People

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High Growth Handbook is a comprehensive playbook for growing startups into global brands. Written by Elad Gil, who has extensive experience working with high-growth tech companies, the book provides crystal-clear guidance on navigating the complex challenges faced by leaders and operators in high-growth startups. It covers essential topics including the role of the CEO, managing a board, recruiting and overseeing an executive team, mergers and acquisitions, initial public offerings, and late-stage funding. The book is informed by interviews with dynamic leaders in Silicon Valley, such as Reid Hoffman, Marc Andreessen, and Aaron Levie.

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Richard Rumelt

In *Good Strategy/Bad Strategy*, Richard Rumelt clarifies the distinction between effective and ineffective strategies. He argues that a good strategy is a specific and coherent response to overcoming obstacles, harnessing power where it will have the greatest effect. Rumelt debunks elements of 'bad strategy' such as equating goals, motivational slogans, and financial targets with actual strategy. He introduces the 'kernel' of strategy, which includes a diagnosis of the challenge, a guiding policy, and coherent action. The book uses diverse examples from business, nonprofit, and military contexts to illustrate these concepts and emphasizes the importance of analytical rigor and focused effort in strategy development.

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Be a Kick-ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity

Kim Scott

Radical Candor by Kim Scott offers a practical approach to management by emphasizing the importance of caring personally and challenging directly. The book argues that effective managers must find a balance between being empathetic and providing clear, honest feedback. Scott draws from her experiences at Google and Apple to provide actionable lessons on building strong relationships, giving feedback, and creating a collaborative work environment. The book introduces the concept of 'radical candor' as the sweet spot between obnoxious aggression and ruinous empathy, and provides tools and strategies for managers to implement this approach in their daily work.

“The only time where I saw all the VPs align is when they all hated the CEO” Why do we keep getting organizations wrong? How should you think about your team, the team of teams, and the organization you’re in?

Our five principles of organizational design and how to navigate growth and scaling challenges, particularly in startups.

takeaways

Growth should be a collective responsibility across all departments.
High internal conflict is a sign of poor organizational health.
C-level executives must act as translators between departments. Internal curiosity is as important as external curiosity.
Smaller companies often scale too quickly without solid foundations.
Founders should maintain humility about what they don't know.

Sound Bites

"We start out with a high-level idea, then complicate it."
"You should measure MQLs, not celebrate them."
"Make sure you're alive to fight in the next round."

Chapters

00:00 Understanding the Dual Role of a CMO

06:08The Ownership of Growth: A Collective Responsibility

12:12 Organizational Design: Indicators of Health and Conflict

17:51 The Complexity of Metrics and Data Overload

23:56 Cross-Functional Collaboration: The Role of C-Level Executives

30:38 The Importance of Internal Curiosity

31:36 Lessons from the GE Hawthorne Experiments

32:32 Feedback and Communication in Organizations

34:21 Five Principles of Organizational Design

36:14 Designing for Healthy Conflicts

37:40 Rethinking Marketing Qualified Leads (MQLs)

40:02 The Role of Incentives in Organizational Success

42:17 Establishing Fail-Safe Processes

44:13 Challenges Faced by Smaller Companies

45:08 The Need for Humility in Startups

48:57 The Complexity of Large-Scale Projects

50:50 Understanding Time vs. Money in Enterprise Sales

52:00 Practical Advice for Implementing Change

56:41 Managing Big Projects Effectively

59:01 Staying Alive in the Competitive Landscape

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