alphalist.CTO Podcast - For CTOs and Technical Leaders

#100 - Intuition over 'Data Driven' feat. Jason Fried // co-founder + CEO @ 37signals

May 3, 2024

Jason Fried, CEO of 37signals, discusses intuition over data-driven decisions, simple product design, CEO-CTO dynamics, post-launch customer interviews, Bezos' shares in 37signals, and hiring based on intuition. The podcast also explores the evolution of the speaker's computer journey, transition from PHP to Ruby, open-sourcing Rails, and the need for skill rejuvenation in web development.

58:12

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Episode guests

Jason Fried

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Quick takeaways

Trust intuition over data-driven decisions for business success.

Prioritize simplicity and versatility in product design for user-friendly solutions.

Cultivate a harmonious CEO-CTO relationship through mutual respect and healthy conflicts.

Deep dives

Building a Business from Scratch with Bootstrapping

Starting the business with $30,000 from personal savings, Jason and his partners initiated 37signals as a web design company. They used existing resources like an office without rent to kickstart their venture. The business was entirely self-funded, relying on customer-generated revenue, with no external investments. Jeff Bezos later bought a part of the business to de-risk the founders, but no external funding has ever been injected into the core business operations.

Importance of Understanding Metrics

00:23

Productivity through Focus and Realistic Planning

00:45

Introduction

2min

Bootstrapping Business Growth and Jeff Bezos' Involvement

7min

Exploring the Evolution of the Speaker's Computer Journey

4min

Transition from PHP to Ruby and Open-Sourcing Rails

5min

Balancing Conflicts and Collaboration: CEO-CTO Dynamics

16min

Uncovering Insights and Hiring Based on Intuition

22min

Exploring the Need for Skill Rejuvenation in Web Development

3min

Intuition over Data-Driven, Hooks over Towel Rails and Profit over Revenue

Trust your intuition, you will gain a lot from this CTO podcast featuring Jason Fried, co-founder and CEO of 37signals, a company known for having groundbreaking policies and products (Basecamp, HEY, Once, etc.). He is also bootstrapping hero and author of multiple books (Getting Real, REWORK, REMOTE, It Doesn’t Have to Be Crazy at Work).

Listen to find out:

Intuitive🔮 over ‘data-driven’ 🔢decision making
Hook 🪝 vs Towel Rail 🎏: The Power of Simple, Versatile Products
CEO-CTO Relationship: How to counteract the negativity brought on by the typical push-pull 🤼
Why they do Customer interviews post-launch
Take-home assessments at 37signals: paid and overloaded 🏋️
Bezos’ shares in 37signals

Listen here

BROUGHT TO YOU BY Swarmia

Timestamps:

(00:00) INTRO (03:32) Who is Jason Fried (04:59) Early Days of 37Signals (06:05) Jeff Bezos' shares in 37Signals (09:01) Profits over Revenue (10:42) JASON’S NERD JOURNEY (15:35) The Power of No Expectations as First-Time Founder (16:46) Open Source and Rails (19:06) CEO-CTO RELATIONSHIP (19:34) Scale of Product: CEO's Vision vs. CTO's Reality (22:42) Tips to have a good relationship with the CEO as CTO (23:01) Find common ground (24:32) Positive interactions to counteract the negativity of differing opinions (27:38) HOOK VS TOWEL BAR: Analogy for Simple Products (31:07) How to make sure you are building a 'Hook' (not a Towel Bar) (33:20) 'Heated Towels' and Tradeoffs (34:44) Reverse Engineering Product Decisions (35:27) IDEAS AND PRODUCT DISCOVERY (36:06) Where do Ideas come from? (36:45) The Evolution of 'Hey' Email: An Unfolding Idea (38:31) Why they do Customer Interview only Post-Launch (40:09) INTUITION VS DATA DRIVEN DECISIONS (43:49) Hiring: The Human Element (47:17) TakeHome Assessments - Paid and Overloaded (to test decision-making ability) (48:38) Hiring: Attitude vs. Experience (51:15) Do Less to Accomplish More (51:45) No Estimates - but Appetites (53:46) His Anti-Advice Advice for Younger Self (57:15) Pay attention to CSS

About Jason Fried#

Jason Fried is the cofounder and president of Basecamp (formerly 37signals), a privately held Chicago-based company committed to building the best web-based tools possible with the least number of features necessary. With David Heinemeier Hansson, Fried is the coauthor of Getting Real: The Smarter, Faster, Easier Way to Build a Successful Web Application; Remote: Office Not Required; and the New York Times bestseller Rework.

About our sponsor

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Learn more and start your free 14-day trial at https://link.alphalist.com/swarmia_podcast

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