It's often noted that Alcoholics Anonymous sounds like a religious movement, with its appeal to a 'Higher Power'. But Joe C. is the founder of a group called AA Beyond Belief, which he says exists to provide a space for AA agnostics, atheists and freethinkers worldwide. Bart Campolo has wanted to have a conversation with a secular person deep in the AA world for a long time, and Joe C. is that person! Many people have been helped and find their community in groups like his, and Bart wanted to explore how it looks for Joe, people in recovery and those in his group in particular.