Margaret Atwood joins Deborah Treisman in a live podcast to read and discuss Mavis Gallant's 'Varieties of Exile'. They explore the emotional impact on Americans tied to Gaza, share anecdotes about meeting Mavis Gallant, discuss book condition and reading habits, explore the experiences of remittance men, reflect on Frank Cairns and his socialist beliefs, and delve into loss and forgetfulness in 'Varieties of Exile'. They also discuss Mavis Gallant's autobiographical stories and Lynette Muir's relationships with remittance men and Frank Cairns.
The podcast discusses the emotional experiences of individuals witnessing war and turmoil, emphasizing the helplessness and longing for conversation amidst chaos.
The episode explores the lives of remittance men, British immigrants banished to other countries, and their struggles with identity and belonging.
Lynette Muir, the protagonist, seeks meaningful conversation, exploring different possibilities beyond societal norms, while resisting the idea of conforming to marriage and domesticity.
Deep dives
Experiences of Exile and Bearing Witness
The podcast episode explores the emotions and experiences of individuals who bear witness to war and turmoil, particularly in the context of the Gaza conflict. It delves into the struggles faced by Americans with ties to the region as they watch the carnage from afar. The episode paints a vivid picture of the emotions and challenges faced by those caught in the conflict, highlighting the sense of helplessness and longing for conversation amidst the chaos.
The Complexities of Remittance Men
A significant portion of the episode delves into the concept of remittance men, British immigrants banished to places like Canada, South Africa, and New Zealand due to family conflicts or social indiscretions. These individuals, often provided with a fixed income to support their expenses, struggled with a sense of identity and belonging. The episode explores the lives of these remittance men and their unique struggles and challenges, painting a picture of their lives as perpetual children, perpetually waiting for a rescue party from England.
The Search for Conversation and a Different Life
Throughout the episode, the protagonist, Lynette Muir, seeks meaningful conversation and a life beyond the traditional expectations of marriage and domesticity. Lynette's desire for conversation leads her to engage with refugees and explore the literary landscape of socialism. However, she remains hesitant to fully commit to romantic relationships and the idea of becoming a married woman. The episode captures Lynette's longing for connection, her exploration of different possibilities, and her resistance to conforming to societal norms.
The fascination with immigrants and exiles
The protagonist of the story, Lynette, is captivated by the lives of immigrants and exiles. She finds their stories romantic, but quickly loses interest when they become ordinary and integrated into society. She also sees Frank Cairns, a type of exile she disapproves of, as soggy and gray. Lynette herself does not fit in anywhere, feeling like an outsider in the summer place she rents a room and amongst her coworkers. The story explores the various forms and consequences of exile.
The conflicted feelings towards Frank Cairns
Lynette has conflicted feelings towards Frank Cairns, a man she encounters on the train. She is intrigued by his discussions about the English poor and the idea of social change. However, she constantly deflects attention away from him and idealizes an absent friend Frank once spoke about. This suggests that she may be threatened by her own potential attraction towards Frank. The story subtly hints at Lynette's hidden emotions and unresolved feelings towards him.
Margaret Atwood joins Deborah Treisman to read and discuss “Varieties of Exile,” by Mavis Gallant, which was published in The New Yorker in 1976. Atwood is the author of more than forty books of poetry and fiction, including the novels “The Handmaid’s Tale” and “The Testaments” and the story collection “Old Babes in the Wood,” which was published earlier this year. This is the first episode of the New Yorker Fiction Podcast to be recorded in front of a live audience. It was taped at the Hot Docs podcast festival, in Toronto, on October 21, 2023.
