Why students struggle in math and how to fix it with Barbara Oakley and John Mighton (Ep 61)

27 snips

Dec 19, 2025

Guest

Barbara Oakley

Guest

John Mighton

Join John Mighton, a mathematician and founder of JUMP Math, alongside Barbara Oakley, a learning scientist and bestselling author, as they dive into the world of math education. They discuss their new Coursera course aimed at tackling math anxiety and highlight the significance of practice and worked examples. From building mathematical schemas to the dangers of over-relying on manipulatives, they address critical learning strategies. The conversation reveals how transforming math education can unlock human potential and improve societal resilience.

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ANECDOTE

From Remedial To Professor

John Mighton described tutoring a student labelled 'remedial' who became a tenured math professor.
That change convinced him many people can learn math with the right support.

ADVICE

Practice Key Problems Until They 'Whisper'

Use retrieval practice to build fluency; practice key problems until steps come automatically.
Peek only when stuck and repeat important problems until they 'whisper' the next step.

INSIGHT

Schemas Are The Source Of Intuition

Schemas arise from repeated exposure and let you recognise deep structure across problems.
Mathematical intuition is pattern recognition built from many practiced examples.

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In this episode, Anna is joined by two familiar guests, mathematician and founder of JUMP Math, Dr. John Mighton, and learning expert and bestselling author Dr. Barbara Oakley. They discuss their new Coursera course, Making Math Click: Understanding Math Without Fear, what learning science reveals about how students learn math, and why practice and worked examples play such a critical role in building math confidence.

They discuss schemas, give some cautionary advice about using manipulatives and concrete-pictorial-abstract approaches, and explain why moving quickly from concrete to abstract matters. They describe what’s at stake when math education fails, what’s lost when students don’t develop foundational skills, and what it will take to help more learners succeed in math.

This is a practical, engaging, and insightful episode for teachers, parents, university students, and anyone who has ever felt they weren’t a math person.

This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke

Making Math Click: Understand Math Without Fear: Free course with certificate: https://www.coursera.org/learn/math-click?action=showPartnerSupportedAccess

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00:22] Introduction
[00:05:40] How Barbara’s background shaped her approach to math
[00:07:00] John’s experience with math from a young age
[00:09:21] John and Barbara’s Coursera course
[00:11:07] Who is their course for?
[00:15:45] Is the course beneficial for teachers?
[00:21:54] What math and Sylvia Plath’s writing have in common
[00:23:51] Building schemas in math
[00:26:46] Getting good at math leads to liking math
[00:31:08] Kaminsky’s research on manipulatives vs. abstract representations
[00:33:39] Fading from concrete to abstract
[00:40:30] Barbara’s article in the Seattle Times
[00:42:30] Real world consequences of innumeracy
[00:49:13] Learning math takes practice and patience
[00:51:38] Societal loss from kids not learning math
[00:57:13] Failed constructivist approaches
[01:00:50] Barbara’s and John’s recommendations for system improvements
[01:05:42] Final thoughts

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES

How to excel in math and other tough subject with Barabara Oakley

https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/ep-7-best-ways-to-learn-math-with-barbara-oakley/
Math and the Myth of Ability with John Mighton

https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/ep-1-math-and-the-myth-of-ability-with-john-mighton/

Balanced literacy didn’t work–will balanced math? with Ben Solomon
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-usvqw-1962107

Math fact crisis: strategies for improving numeracy with Brian Poncy
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-u9y84-165d773

EPISODE RESOURCES

https://www.annastokke.com/resources/ep-61-resources

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-61-transcript

MUSIC

Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic

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