Mike Pence: US will soon get deserving government

Sep 14, 2025

In a revealing conversation, former US Vice President Mike Pence reflects on his tumultuous time in the Trump administration and the Capitol riots. He shares insights on the importance of strong alliances, especially concerning NATO and support for Ukraine. Pence discusses the challenges of upholding American democratic values in a post-truth era and reflects on the significance of unity in times of chaos. He also touches on personal experiences of resilience, divine intervention during crises, and the lessons learned from navigating a politically charged environment.

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INSIGHT

Confidence In American Civic Strength

Mike Pence believes American civic virtues endure despite political turmoil.
He expects government to someday match the quality of the American people again.

INSIGHT

Ukraine Strengthened NATO Unity

Pence argues NATO strengthened as allies united after Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
He credits the invasion for prompting renewed transatlantic unity and support for Ukraine.

ADVICE

Pass Secondary Sanctions Now

Push the US Senate to pass secondary sanctions and send them to the president's desk.
Use allied economic measures alongside military support to pressure Russia toward peace.

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‘I'm very confident that someday soon we're going to have government as good as our people again’

Paddy O’Connell speaks to former US Vice President Mike Pence about President Trump’s second term in office. Pence, whose political career began a quarter of a century ago, first rose to international prominence when he was selected by Donald Trump to be his running mate for the 2016 US Presidential election.

When the insurgent billionaire shocked the world by defeating Hillary Clinton, Pence found himself at the centre of an administration beset by multiple controversies from the very beginning, including having to navigate impeachment proceedings against his boss.

The pair, however, weren’t always aligned in their worldviews, and the relationship became increasingly frayed behind closed doors. Formal ties were severed when Pence resisted efforts by Trump to overturn his election defeat to Joe Biden in 2020.

After leaving the post of Vice-President, Pence remained active in politics in the years that followed, eventually running for the Republican nomination for the 2024 Presidential election. This was, of course, won by his old boss - but Pence refused to endorse him the second time around.

Despite the turbulent four years in office, he remains proud of what he and Trump achieved in that time. However, he can now speak more freely about his former boss, who is back in the White House for a second term.

His experience at the very top of American politics also gives him unique insight into events both at home and abroad. In this wide-ranging interview, he discusses many pressing issues including vaccine scepticism, global tariffs and the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Thank you to the Newsnight team for their help in making this programme. The Interview brings you conversations with people shaping our world, from all over the world. The best interviews from the BBC. You can listen on the BBC World Service, Mondays and Wednesdays at 0700 GMT. Or you can listen to The Interview as a podcast, out twice a week on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presenter: Paddy O’Connell Producers: Ben Cooper, Samuel Kerr, Pascale Puthod and Liz Rawlings Editor: Justine Lang

Get in touch with us on email TheInterview@bbc.co.uk and use the hashtag #TheInterviewBBC on social media.

(Image: Mike Pence. Credit: John Lamparski/Getty Images)