The Meaning Crisis, Platonism and Mystical Experiences with John Vervaeke | Mind Meld 372
Dec 21, 2023
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Cognitive scientist and professor John Vervaeke discusses the importance of mystical experiences, the meaning crisis, and the merging of ancient wisdom with modern cognitive science. They explore the value of Platonism, Zen Buddhism, and the tension between finitude and transcendence. The speakers also delve into the concepts of transjectivity, cultivating wisdom, and the mystery of reality in naturalism. They challenge misconceptions of the supernatural, advocate for a proper relationship with sacredness, and explore the concept of aporia and ontological layers.
Platonic wisdom involves both ascending to see the sun and descending back into the cave, as the return allows for grounding of knowing and participation in the intelligibility of reality.
Platonism requires the cultivation of a profound receptivity to reality, often described as a learned ignorance, allowing for the rebirth of the self and the world.
Platonism emphasizes the pursuit of wisdom through questioning, multi-perspectival metacognition, and the recognition that easy answers or propositional knowledge do not lead to true understanding.
Deep dives
The Importance of the Ascent and Return
Plato emphasizes the significance of both ascending and descending in the pursuit of knowledge and understanding. The philosopher's journey involves not only ascending to see the sun but also descending back into the cave. This return is as vital as the ascent, as it allows for the grounding of knowing and participation in the intelligibility of reality. Such knowing goes beyond propositional knowledge and involves a deeper, non-propositional understanding that makes sense of reality.
Platonic Wisdom and the Receptivity to Reality
Platonic wisdom requires the cultivation of a profound receptivity to reality. The aim is to be in touch with the really real and to participate in the way in which reality is realizing itself. This receptivity, often described as a learned ignorance, allows for the rebirth of the self and the rebirth of the world. It involves seeing through illusions, connecting with the depths of reality, and aligning oneself with what is most real. Being born again means embracing a deeper world and living in accordance with the transcendent truth.
The Pursuit of Wisdom and the Perspective of Socrates
Platonism centers around the pursuit of wisdom, which involves the cultivation of a profound love for wisdom and a deep existential rationality. The perspective of Socrates, an important figure in Platonism, emphasizes the importance of questioning, not knowing, and seeing through the illusions of common sense. Socrates' recognition of his own ignorance challenges the idea that easy answers or propositional knowledge can lead to true understanding. The aim is to develop a virtue of multi-perspectival metacognition, which allows for a deep examination of reality and the self.
Platonism and the Second Birth
Platonism, along with other philosophies and spiritual traditions, points to the concept of a second birth or rebirth. This rebirth involves a profound transformation and awakening to a greater nature within oneself. The pursuit of wisdom in Platonism is intertwined with the ideas of rebirth, growth, and the revelation of a deeper reality. It moves beyond mere intellectual understanding and involves a genuine transformation of the self. The rebirth is not a self-centered endeavor, but rather a means to connect with the kingdom of reality and to live in alignment with the ultimate truth.
The Tonus Between Emergence and Transcendence
The podcast episode discusses the concept of the tonus, which refers to the interplay between emergence and transcendence. It argues that emergence and transcendence are deeply intertwined and cannot be separated. The tonus represents the balance between the two, where emergence brings forth new possibilities and transcendence connects us to something greater than ourselves. This idea challenges reductionism and the temptation to view transcendence as a separate super-entity. Instead, the podcast suggests that the tonus should be understood as a fundamental feature of naturalistic reality, which can lead to a transformative relationship with the sacred.
The Nature of Reality and the Sacredness
The podcast explores the concept of reality and the sacredness from a naturalistic perspective. It argues that the sacredness should be understood as an inexhaustible source of intelligibility, rather than a super special or supreme being. The discussion emphasizes the need to dissolve the desire for a separate world or super substance and instead focus on the profound relationship of co-realization with the sacred. This relationship involves a reciprocal opening and transformative impact on our lives, encompassing epistemological, ontological, and psychological dimensions. The podcast also critiques the narcissistic tendency in some conceptions of God and highlights the importance of facing our mortality and cultivating wisdom and virtue.
In this one, we muse about the immortal wisdom of Platonism and Zen Buddhism. We also riff on the importance of direct, embodied experiences (both mystical and mundane), why reductionism is doomed, and why reality is neither top-down (created) or bottom-up (emerging), but both. Other topics include the meaning crisis, Carl Jung, how the above merge with modern cognitive science, and more.
