Psychedelic Medicine Podcast with Dr. Lynn Marie Morski The Dangers of "Ayahuasca Told Me…" with Jerónimo Mazarrasa
In this episode, Jerónimo Mazarrasa joins to discuss how to interpret visions and insights disclosed during ayahuasca journeys more effectively. Jerónimo is Program Director at ICEERS, founder of ICEERS Academy, and creator of AyaSafety, an online course for people interested in increasing the safety of ayahuasca ceremonies.
To start, Jerónimo emphasizes that answering the question of whether ayahuasca visions originate in the plant medicine itself or if these are just disclosures of one’s own subconscious is actually not what's most important. Instead, he suggests that in either case, what is crucial is spending time carefully considering how one should respond to these disclosures. Jerónimo shares insights from expert facilitators on how one can best go about interpreting and responding to such experiences, suggesting that an important aspect of this process is that participants feel comfortable taking personal responsibility for whatever decisions they eventually decide to make rather than thinking of these major life changes as necessary consequences of the psychedelic experience itself. In closing, Jerónimo discusses the tension between externalization and psychologization of psychedelic experiences and why both of these can lead to issues.
In this episode, you'll hear:
- The common experience of feeling as though the ayahuasca has communicated something to you
- Examples of where taking an ayahuasca vision literally can lead to problematic outcomes
- The “three confirmations” one should look for before making a major decision based on a psychedelic experience
- The metaphor of ayahuasca as a microscope
- How skilled ayahuasca facilitators ensure proper psychological hygiene with participants
- Judging the validity of potential repressed memories that seem to surface during psychedelic experiences
Quotes:
“The way that ayahuasca becomes useful for people, I think, is that it shows you—it amplifies and shows you—what is already inside of yourself. Now, this is very useful for certain things but one has to understand the nature of the language.” [9:23]
“Facilitators should instruct their participants that one rule is that you shouldn’t make any decisions during an ayahuasca ceremony—unless they are decisions related to taking yourself out of danger.” [14:42]
“Ayahuasca is not a shortcut for personal development—it’s just a flashlight that can help you shed some light on some darker parts of [your] issues and problems, but it is not a shortcut.” [35:47]
“The main contraindication of psychedelics is not wanting to take psychedelics. You should absolutely never ever ever ever ever take psychedelics if you don’t want to because it is going to be horrible. It’s like a kiss—when you want it, its beautiful, intimate, gorgeous; when you don’t want it, it's the most intrusive, disgusting, blech thing ever.” [50:27]
Links:
Previous episode: Guruism and Cult Dynamics in Psychedelic Practices with Joseph Holcomb Adams
Previous episode: Can Psychedelics Lead to False Beliefs? with Hugh McGovern, PhD