Terrence Keeley, an investment expert and ex-BlackRock executive, discusses impact investment, ESG narratives, cost-effective solutions, and the positive side of societal betterment. They explore the dangers of oversimplification in the climate crisis narrative, the limitations of clean energy solutions, and the importance of consumer demand. They also touch on market failure, AI, effective altruism, and the responsibility of the strong to help the weak. The speakers emphasize individual ethical responsibility for sustainability, doing good deeds, and transforming lives through impact programs.
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Quick takeaways
Balancing the three primary pillars of societal good - markets, government, and community - is essential for achieving prosperity, good governance, and social well-being.
Individual ethical responsibility and voluntary adoption of sustainable practices are key to achieving a sustainable future rooted in principles of faith, humanity, and personal growth.
ESG investing should focus on practical, cost-effective solutions that address poverty, education, health, and energy security, rather than relying solely on top-down regulations and exclusions.
Mindful investments and policies that balance economic development and sustainability, driven by consumer choices and innovation, are crucial for the well-being of current and future generations.
Deep dives
The importance of balancing markets, government, and community for societal good
The podcast episode discusses the concept of balancing the three primary pillars of societal good: markets, government, and community. It emphasizes the need for a harmonious interaction between these pillars to achieve prosperity, good governance, and social well-being. The episode highlights that an optimal state requires the collective responsibility of individuals, families, and communities, while also emphasizing the role of personal responsibility and solidarity. It acknowledges that trade-offs exist in finding the right balance and calls for a fact-based, inclusive conversation to navigate these challenges.
The importance of individual ethical responsibility and voluntary participation for sustainability
The episode explores the significance of individual ethical responsibility in achieving sustainability. It argues against top-down, compelled approaches and advocates for inviting individuals to voluntarily adopt sustainable practices. The podcast highlights that a sustainable future depends on personal and societal adoption of ethical principles, rooted in principles of faith, humanity, and personal growth. It emphasizes that living sustainably requires considering the long-term impact on future generations and fostering a mindset that aligns with the highest good.
The limitations and potential dangers of ESG investing
The podcast raises concerns about ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) investing, despite acknowledging its good intentions. It questions the effectiveness of top-down solutions and regulations imposed by institutions managing trillions of dollars in assets. The episode reflects on the origins of ESG and highlights the importance of a broader perspective that includes economic growth, inclusivity, and free markets. It suggests that the focus should be on practical, cost-effective solutions, such as targeted interventions to address poverty, education, health, and energy security.
Balancing development and sustainability through mindful investments and policies
The podcast emphasizes the need for mindful investments and policies that balance economic development and sustainability. It discusses the progress made since the end of World War II, highlighting the reduction in poverty, improvements in health, and increased education. The episode argues for a market-driven approach that allows consumers to make mindful choices and drive innovation, rather than relying solely on top-down regulations. It calls for a global awareness of future generations and encourages individuals and institutions to take responsible actions that benefit both current and future populations.
Criticism of ESG investing
ESG rules have had unintended consequences in practice, leading to a reduction in investment in certain industries. The idea that excluding companies like Exxon Mobil will significantly impact the environment is dismissed as silly. Historical examples show that avoiding certain industries, like the slave trade or sin stocks, did not lead to their eradication. Impact investing is proposed as a preferable alternative, where investments have a genuine, verifiable impact on areas like affordable housing and financial inclusion.
Challenges in ESG investment
The belief that ethical principles can rectify irresponsible investing and improve ethical behavior is questioned. It is argued that people who invest their own money or take stewardship seriously are already motivated to invest wisely. Imposing a top-down ideological framework is seen as compromising investment and market strategies. Examples of companies like Budweiser and Target are provided to highlight the potential negative consequences of prioritizing an ideological framework over wise investment practices.
Promoting impact investing
The focus is shifted towards impact investing, which aims to achieve both financial returns and positive social and environmental outcomes. It is emphasized that impact investing requires mindfulness, discernment, and careful evaluation of investments to ensure real, verifiable additionality. Various programs addressing social issues are highlighted, such as affordable housing, teenage recidivism, and job opportunities. The role of the community, philanthropy, and personal responsibility in creating inclusive and sustainable growth is emphasized.
Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with investment expert and author Terrence Keeley. They discuss the recent success of the ARC conference, the reality of climate narratives and the ESG mafia, the cost effective solutions to some of our most pressing problems, and the positive side of societal betterment via impact investing.
Terrence Keeley is an American investment expert and author who has worked with and managed some of the largest investment organizations in the world. Besides having been an executive at Blackrock, Terrence also founded and served as the Senior Managing Principal of Sovereign Trends, LLC, an advisory firm for and about sovereign institutions. From 1987-2010 he was a senior managing director at UBS Investment Bank, where he oversaw the firm’s transactional and advisory relations with central banks, sovereign wealth funds, ministries of finance, public pension funds, and multilateral organizations, including the IMF and World Bank.
Terrence served as a consultant to Pope Francis’ financial reform commission, overseeing the Vatican bank. He is also a founding director of the Financial Hippocratic Oath movement. From 1982-85 he served as one of the first young trustees on the Notre Dame Board. Today he is also a frequent commentator/author on all issues relating to international finance, cross-border capital movements and global financial governance. He is married to Saskia Bory of Geneva, Switzerland. Their two sons attended the Lycée Français de New York.
This episode was recorded on October 13th, 2023
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