Downstream: How Protest Movements Fall Apart w/ Vincent Bevins
Oct 30, 2023
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American journalist Vincent Bevins discusses the pitfalls of protest movements, drawing on his experiences covering events like the Arab Spring and Occupy Wall Street. Topics include the challenges of maximum democracy in communist thinking, the media's impact on protest dynamics, football ultras' involvement in protests, and exploring leadership and organizational structure in left-wing movements.
Left-wing protest movements often fail due to a lack of clear leadership and strategic planning.
Finding a balance between idealism and practicality is crucial for effective and sustainable change.
The portrayal of protest movements in the media can significantly impact their success or failure.
Deep dives
Weaknesses in Left-Wing Protest Movements
Left-wing protest movements often fail to achieve their intended outcomes, ending up with results that are the opposite of what they initially wanted. This pattern can be seen in movements like the Arab Spring and the Free Fares movement in Sao Paulo. Weaknesses in these movements, such as a lack of clear leadership and strategic planning, contribute to their eventual failure. To prevent this, future protest movements may need to reexamine their approach and consider factors like representation, hierarchy, and division of labor.
Challenges of Direct Democracy and Utopian Thinking
The belief in maximum democracy and utopian thinking can present challenges for left-wing protest movements. While there is value in striving for maximum democracy at every level, practical considerations come into play. The need for decision-making mechanisms and the division of labor may be necessary for effective and sustainable change. This does not mean completely abandoning the dream of a more democratic society, but finding a balance between idealism and practicality in implementing change.
Media Influence on Protest Movements
Media plays a significant role in shaping and interpreting protest movements. The way protests are portrayed in the media can influence public perception and the outcomes of these movements. Often, mainstream media tends to fit protests into preexisting narratives, as seen in the case of the Arab Spring being compared to the fall of the Berlin Wall. The media's influence can change the course and direction of protests, ultimately impacting their success or failure.
Challenges of Street Movements and Football Ultras
Street movements that involve extended confrontations with the police often see the emergence of football ultras as influential actors. Football ultras, known for their expertise in street clashes, can dominate such movements due to their experience and organization. However, their participation also introduces challenges and potential infestations of right-wing ideologies. Leftists within these movements face the dilemma of coexisting or contesting the presence of right-wing elements, leaving them to decide whether to stay, leave, or fight for their causes within the evolving dynamics of the movement.
Understanding the value of conversations and learning from past experiences
The podcast episode explores the importance of engaging in conversations with individuals who have been involved in organizing, responding to, or governing mass protest movements. The host conducted interviews with 200 to 250 people from 12 countries to understand what happened during these movements and what they wished they had done differently. These conversations revealed valuable insights and lessons learned that can be shared with future generations. While there were differing opinions among the interviewees, the overall value of these conversations lies in understanding how these movements evolved across different countries and how they influenced one another.
The significance of strategic organizing and collective action
One of the key points discussed in the podcast is the importance of strategic organizing and collective action. The podcast acknowledges that different tactics can be effective depending on the objective and context. For example, protests are seen as communicative acts that work best when supported by other actions or organizations that can put pressure on existing power structures. The podcast also highlights the success of labor organizing in strategic sectors and the importance of building collective capacities for action. While not everyone may engage in full-time activism, the podcast emphasizes the value of joining organizations that align with personal values and interests to effect change at various levels.
The 2010s were a time of mass protest, from the Arab Spring uprisings to Occupy Wall Street, Euromaidan and Hong Kong’s Umbrella Movement. Many of these movements shared a ‘horizontalist’ or leaderless approach, and most of them ended in failure. Why? American journalist Vincent Bevins talks to Ash about the pitfalls of protest and what […]
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