The Limitless Podcast AI DEBATE: Runaway Superintelligence or Normal Technology? | Daniel Kokotajlo vs Arvind Narayanan
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Jun 4, 2025 
In a thought-provoking debate, Daniel Kokotajlo, a former OpenAI researcher and author of AI 2027, argues for a rapid intelligence explosion, while Princeton professor Arvind Narayanan, co-author of AI Snake Oil, counters that AI remains controllable and slowly reshapes society. They explore the intersection of AI capabilities and power dynamics, the societal impact of AI development, and the crucial need for ethical governance. This captivating clash highlights contrasting visions for AI's future and its potential to revolutionize or stabilize our world.
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AI as Gradual Innovation
- Arvind Narayanan sees AI as a gradual innovation similar to past technologies like electricity or the internet.
- He emphasizes slow societal adaptation over rapid, revolutionary change by AI capabilities alone.
AI as a New Species
- Daniel Kokotajlo predicts superintelligence will rapidly transform the economy post-2027.
- He argues this will lead to a new AI-driven species rivaling human economic and military power.
Separating Capability From Power
- Arvind Narayanan differentiates AI capability from AI power controlled by human institutions.
- He sees societal, legal, and institutional oversight as key to preventing AI's misuse despite growing capabilities.