London Review Bookshop Podcast

Lavinia Greenlaw & Mark Wallinger: On Difficulty (and Poetry)

Oct 21, 2026
Lavinia Greenlaw, poet, novelist and essayist, joins Mark Wallinger, a conceptual artist exploring identity and belief. They examine why poetry can be difficult, how friction and uncertainty fuel creativity, and the tension between meaningful complexity and empty obscurity. They discuss memory, form, artistic courage, structure, simplicity, and the hidden labor behind work that feels effortless.
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INSIGHT

Difficulty Can Become A Poem’s Engine

  • Difficulty becomes productive when writers turn obstruction into a new angle on perception and comprehension.
  • A poem’s subject ultimately becomes the reader, not merely its cats, sunsets, sex, or death.
INSIGHT

Friction Protects Thought From Becoming Frictionless

  • Friction, waiting, and boredom can deepen thought by slowing perception and unsettling habitual responses.
  • Digital access risks replacing experience with effortless spectatorship, confusing the virtual with the actual.
ANECDOTE

How Soap Suds Collapse Time

  • Lavinia Greenlaw reads Louis MacNeice’s “Soap Suds” as memory collapsing time through smell.
  • The poem’s single sentence, rough sounds, and slow-motion imagery make a painful flash of association physically vivid.
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