Conversational Selling Carlos A. Alvarenga: The Art and Science of Persuasion
About Carlos A. Alvarenga: Carlos A. Alvarenga is an independent researcher, writer, and coach. His new book, "The Rules of Persuasion: How the World's Greatest Communicators Convince, Inspire, Lead—and, Sometimes, Deceive" (Post Hill Press, 2023), not only explains how persuasion works in all forms of human communication but also presents a clear and effective model that can be used in both personal and professional lives. Before his current roles, Carlos was the Executive Director of World 50 Labs, the member-innovation team at World 50, Inc. Before that, he served as a Principal in Ernst & Young's Advisory Practice and as a Managing Director at Accenture. Additionally, he was an adjunct professor at the Robert H. Smith School of Business at the University of Maryland. Currently, Carlos is pursuing his Ph.D. in language, writing, and rhetoric at the University of Maryland. Check out the latest episode of our Conversational Selling podcast to learn more about Carlos.
In this episode, Nancy and Carlos discuss the following:
- What motivated Carlos to become an expert in persuasion
- Importance of defining persuasion and its application in leadership
- The impact of persuasion on sales effectiveness
- The distinction between coercion, manipulation, and persuasion
- The potential for persuasion to be used for both good and evil
- Exploring the dark side of persuasion with historical examples
Key Takeaways:
- It's hard to be good at something you can't define.
- Persuasion is a fundamental human activity.
- Persuasion is getting someone to willingly, rationally, and ultimately control their faculties and accept that what you say is true.
- And the opposite of persuasion is coercion. If I explain to you why doing something is a good thing, that's persuasion. If I trick you, that's manipulation.
"I explained in the book that if we take these three modes—character, argument, and emotion—we can divide each into seven elements. So, the seven parts of character include, for example, the language you use, your history, where you come from, and these kinds of things. There are seven elements of argument: evidence, logic, and witnesses. Then, there are seven kinds of emotion: positive, negative, contemplative, etc. When I had these 21 elements, I needed a metaphor to help clarify it for me and the reader. I went back to high school chemistry and said, it's like a periodic table. Every message I've ever looked at, and I've looked at thousands, combines these 21 elements. So that's step one. It's like learning chemistry, right, Nancy? First, start with elements like carbon, hydrogen, and whatever else you will use. Then, you learn some very simple formulas. Learn the elements that work for you, which ones you feel comfortable working with, and which you like to work with, and then start putting them to work. Within an hour of coaching, I've seen people become better at this because they now understand that if they use their origin as one of the elements, people will want to believe them more." – CARLOS
"Logic is one of the seven elements of argument, so it's on the periodic table. It certainly can be used, right? And people who are doctors and scientists often use logic to persuade. We have broadly spoken about two types of education. If you want to use logic, you can become a philosopher, right? And become a logician and get a PhD in logic. You can become a lawyer. Lawyers also get trained in the use of logic to persuade. But it's one of the 21 elements. We are often persuaded, and we are more often persuaded, I think, by other things. Because you must go to specialized schools to use argument well, most people are not experts at it, either in creating or receiving logical persuasion. So, we tend to be persuaded more by character, for example, or emotion. They operate in different ways. And so, logic is certainly helpful. But I always challenge executives. I say I want you to start persuading me using nothing but logic—strict, well-constructed, internally consistent, effective logical sequences. And if you can make it to three minutes, I'll give you a prize. Unless you're a professional, you can't. Most people fall apart after about a sentence and a half." – CARLOS
"Let's start with the fact that persuasion is predictable. Yeah, I can tell you how someone will, what form of listening they'll use most of the time, and whether it'll be effective. And sometimes it's like magic. I work, coach, and say, I want you to change these two or three things you just told me. And the effect is dramatically different. I've had people break into tears when they finally get the message right. And they think it's something that's special. And I say, it's not. You wouldn't be amazed if you went to a chemist and the chemist made you aspirin. Don't be amazed. I'm just following the rules. And if you follow the rules, more often than not, exactly what should happen will happen, just like with real chemistry." – CARLOS
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