Today I’m joined by Michael Lind, co-founder of New America and the author of Hell to Pay: How the Suppression of Wages is Destroying America. Michael walks us through the last couple decades of globalization, including how both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump came to denounce the TPP. He then argues that Trump 2.0 has done some good things with tariffs—including partial decoupling from China—but much of the administration’s actions have been too haphazard.

We also dive into the delicate balancing act of the “new” and “old” right. Where do they intersect? What do Reaganites think of DOGE? Switching gears, what about the good and bad of Biden’s industrial policy? Can Democrats move past “Trump bad” and define a policy vision for the country? Join us for a wide-ranging and fascinating discussion.

A transcript of this episode is available on the post page on our website.

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