We sometimes reduce “faith-promoting” stories to those tidy endings—where miracles show up just in time, doubts vanish, and testimony replaces tension. But sometimes growth begins when the script falls apart. For Susan Meredith Hinckley and Cynthia Winward, these stories are nourishing a faith that looks like trust and transformation.

Susan and Cynthia are co-hosts of the At Last She Said It podcast and authors of a new book with the same title. They came to this work from different paths. For Cynthia, the Church just worked. She thrived—until her life took a turn at 40 and her certainty unraveled. For Susan, the discomfort was quieter. She says the Church always fit like an “itchy sweater”—a subtle, persistent misfit that kept her silent. But over time, what had become a “crisis of silence” became a call to speak up.

For the past six years, Susan and Cynthia have been inviting women into conversations that began as honest exchanges between friends about big ideas and the real tensions of belonging to a church they both love and feel challenged by. What they’ve learned is that talking about hard things can be its own kind of faith practice—a way to bring your whole heart to your faith and your community, a way of being known.

In this episode, they share practical wisdom for navigating Sundays when belief feels messy, offer a compass for making decisions when clarity is out of reach, and explore how using our voice can help transform hard things into a source connection with each other and a more intimate relationship with a God who loves us without conditions.

We hope this conversation expands your imagination for what spiritual strength can look like—and invites you into a faith that’s honest, evolving, and a true seedbed for growth.

Get their book from Bookshop.org here, or from Amazon here.

We’re so excited to tell you about a new Faith Matters initiative called Organized Intelligence, supported by the Future of Life Institute.

Our first gathering will take place November 4-5 in Salt Lake City, where you'll hear from scholars, creatives, technologists, and religious leaders.

This gathering is for curious minds, and we would love to see you there! Go to organizedintelligence.ai to RSVP.

Order That We Might Have Joy anywhere books are sold! Available as a paperback, ebook, or audiobook.

Episode 0 - Introduction