In Episode 416 of Hidden Forces, Demetri Kofinas speaks with Financial Times correspondent Patrick McGee about the integral role Apple played in helping to build China’s advanced manufacturing ecosystem—and the geopolitical interdependencies and national security risks now baked into that relationship.

McGee’s book “Apple in China” tells two stories. First, it chronicles Apple’s ascent from being nearly bankrupt in the mid‑1990s to becoming the world’s most valuable company within just 15 years. Second, it traces China’s historic transformation from an underdeveloped economy with Third‑World cost structures and armies of unskilled laborers to the world’s largest economy (by purchasing power parity) and the hub of the most advanced manufacturing base on the planet.

By the time this episode is over, you will have learned exactly how Apple off-loaded almost all its manufacturing to Asia by the late 1990s and early 2000s and then consolidated that entire operation inside mainland China. You will also learn how the same supply chain mastery that turned Apple into the world’s most valuable company has left it existentially dependent on a single authoritarian state whose political goals now diverge sharply from Washington’s.

It's an incredible story with profound implications for all of us who depend on China’s manufacturing prowess and intricate supply networks to sustain our way of life. Whether we can extricate ourselves from this web of interdependencies—and the extent to which we should even want to—is one of a number of topics we explore extensively in the episode’s second hour.

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Producer & Host: Demetri Kofinas Editor & Engineer: Stylianos Nicolaou

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Episode Recorded on 05/01/2025

#169. Dr.Bryce Dyer-Focus on Problems over Products