John Gruber, a renowned tech blogger and podcaster, delves into Apple’s AI strategy and the launch of Vision Pro. He critiques the evolution of AI interfaces and discusses how they may reshape user interaction in technology. The conversation reveals Apple's cautious, yet transformative vision for spatial computing—similar to the iPhone's impact. Gruber also navigates the complexities of transitioning to a post-app ecosystem while emphasizing marketing's role in tech investments. His insights reflect a deep understanding of both the potential and challenges in a rapidly evolving tech landscape.